Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[Happy Chooks]

After some research, I found a really great guy here on BYC who also has the old garnet strain of RIR that I'm been working to restore. By "reaching out" for some remedial stock to help what I have, this step is ideal. I'm not a fan of mixing strains, but reaching out someone who has your strain or a strain that forked way back when? It's ideal, I think. There are things my birds can bring to this "marriage" and things like wide tails that the outcross will bring to the equation.

for both of us Fred.

 

[Robert Blosl]

Quote:

After some research, I found a really great guy here on BYC who also has the old garnet strain of RIR that I'm been working to restore. By "reaching out" for some remedial stock to help what I have, this step is ideal. I'm not a fan of mixing strains, but reaching out someone who has your strain or a strain that forked way back when? It's ideal, I think. There are things my birds can bring to this "marriage" and things like wide tails that the outcross will bring to the equation.

for both of us Fred.

What is the history Fred of the Garnet strain of RIR I never heard of them.

In regards to a fan tail I saw some nice fan tails or what I call TEE PEE tails the other night at Matt 1616 farm when I took him a brand new half and half Mohawk male over to his house. I also, saw two different strains of White Plymouth Rock pullets. One from Oklahoma and one from Indiana. One was huge and then he said hold them and see what you think. I held the smaller one about the size of my White Rock Large Fowl females and she felt solid hard as a rock. Then I grabbed the big er female from Oklahoma and she felt about the same size. She looked like she was four pounds over weight. Matt showed me her feathers after I put her in the pen they where much like a Orpington. Its like someone crossed White Orpington onto these White Rocks to make them big so they can win at the shows.

However, feather quality on a rock should be in the same area as a large fowl red moderately tight feathered so the back section does not point down or be like a bunny tail or a COCHIN tail. There are Cochin blood running around in our Rocks as the old guys used them in making the breed. Also, you will get pinched tails how do you get rid of them by selection and I think the fastest way but the slowest way is pushing for higher egg production each year. Selecting the chicks that feather faster than their cousins and brothers and sisters. Using breeders who start laying earl yer each year and get rid of the slow developers and late bloomers.

I saw bunny tails disappear, nice lifts in the back that stay that way even in a show room, TEE PEE tails fanned out when looking them from the rear and the bad think THE LOOK TO SMALL to win at the shows. Yet if you weigh a Rock that is a high egg producer like my old strain use to do they where about a pound and a half over weight. They still lay ed a 2 1/2 oz egg or a little bigger at 11 months of age and produced the same size chick each breeding season but because of their tight feather quality people say they can win up north because they are to small.

Big is not better in my book. I cant stand a Rock that you got to pluck their feathers out of their rear end like some strains of Wyandottes or Orpingtons because of so much loose fluff. Thats the problem today in the eye of the breeder they breed to fads that win in the show rooms and not breeding by the standard. I heard from a good source today if you dont have White Rock Bantams with a tail or back that is not a inch to a inch and a half longer than standard type you can not win in a show room. For example if you had a picture of a White Rock Bantam male and compaired it to the picture of the black and white picture of Schilings Rock Bantams and they matched correctly this male would take firth place or not place at all. This is so sad as I seen this with the change of Old English Bantams down here. They have gone away from the 1980s and 90s style Old English and want more tail. I had guys tell me some breeders crossed black Rose Combs into their lines to get big er tails. Rhode Island Red bantams need lifts in the back and the tail like a rock to win at the shows.

Of course pinched tails wont get it done but this may work. Selection, body capacity, high egg product on should get it done. Many times you are fighting faults from a crossed bird which some whack O breeder used to make his strain to his likening. Crossing Orpingtons on Rocks or Wyandottes could be the reason also dont forget on Colored Rocks such as Silver Pencil led they may had to cross bantam blood into them to get the color on the large fowl. Thats the problem when a breed or color pattern such in our Rocks gets run down you are at the bottom of the gene pool and its a long was back up to get to the norm.

Some times you just have to out cross another strain if you see a trait you really like. Nothing wrong with doing this but you will have a lot of culling to do to get to the level you have set for your self. But that is what makes Master Breeders in this hobby.

I will get off my soap box. Hope this helps. I had tail problems once upon a time. I fixed it with higher egg production.

 

[Happy Chooks]

Great information Bob - thank you so much for commenting on it. I do plan to cull heavily this year.

 

[Chris09]

Quote from Bob
They could be the Garnet Strain that you were talking about back in post 2398
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/407294/the-heritage-rhode-island-red-site/2398

Or they could be the old Garnet Red fowl which should be similar to the shade of red below.

Chris

 

[Robert Blosl]

http://showbirdbid.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=gallery&action=display&thread=3301

Thanks Chris I went back to that thread thats old man Kittles line he advertised in the Red Chronicle in the 1960s. IF you have them for 20 years then they should be or I hope the old line he had.

I dont know why the son wanted to cross other strains of Reds into this line maybe the old line got in breed. He crossed I think Radamaker and someones elses line into them. I saw some of the off spring and they did not get my eye brows up at all.

I am sure like many in Penn area they had some of the old Billobern Farm and Harold Tompkins blood in there stock. Billobern Farm or Jerry Keefer went to Harold's farm and bought all the cream of the crop Reds when Harold retired in 1954. However, the best bird of the 100 single comb cockerels was shipped to Mrs. Donaldson in Georgia. Cliff Terry from Nebraska was there and picked the bird out for Harold.

Anyway it would be fun to see your birds glad you kept them pure over these years. Do you share your birds with others or does anyone else have your strain?

I saw some nice pictures of H bird in bantams but would this be nice to see some large fowl like these Brahmas with such wide width of body's?

 

[Fred's Hens]

Yes. We have birds from Mr Kittle that far pre-date any recent out crossing. That said, while they are the old Garnet birds, they are in poor shape. I don't want to throw names or play blame games. They are our birds now, for better or for worse. We're working on them. We're on generation 3, so we're responsible now. LOL I hatched out a couple dozen chicks this winter out of a trio. Out popped a few that are very remarkable, with dark horn beaks, great color and fair to midland type. They are feathering in now. The rest? Well, let's just say I'll throw them in the layer pen and eat the cockerels at 18 weeks with some biscuits.

There's enough here to push for the old genes. We'll give it another year or two. If it doesn't work, fine. We'll throw in the towel.

 

[Fred's Hens]

http://showbirdbid.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=gallery&action=display&thread=3301

Thanks Chris I went back to that thread thats old man Kittles line he advertised in the Red Chronicle in the 1960s. IF you have them for 20 years then they should be or I hope the old line he had.

I am sure like many in Penn area they had some of the old Billobern Farm and Harold Tompkins blood in there stock. Billobern Farm or Jerry Keefer went to Harold's farm and bought all the cream of the crop Reds when Harold retired in 1954. However, the best bird of the 100 single comb cockerels was shipped to Mrs. Donaldson in Georgia. Cliff Terry from Nebraska was there and picked the bird out for Harold.

Anyway it would be fun to see your birds glad you kept them pure over these years. Do you share your birds with others or does anyone else have your strain?

Bob, your history here is pretty accurate. Mr Kittle is still alive and at 94 or 95 is a very interesting interview, to say the least.

 

[FOGELLY]

Bob,
I have a couple of Columbian Rock pullets raised from Scott's line. They are in a breeding pen with a rooster That also came from his line. They hatched late last spring.
A person could not ask for a better "TeePee" tail than they have, also have nice deep gravy bowl bodies.
They started laying at 6 months.
They have been under lights since December.

In January these two pullets laid 51 eggs in 31 days.

From Heritage Birds!

Ron

 

[Chris09]

Bob,
I let some of the chicks go last year but this year I'll be only letting birds 4 months or older birds go.
After about 10 years or so of having Reds I still find myself nitpicking on the type on my birds and trying to improve type. If I ever get the type down I will start on color. lol
I sill live on that old saying, "Build the barn first then you can paint it".

I'll have to get some updated pictures of the Reds when the weather breaks, right now there about 2 inches of new snow on the ground which isn't bad but that wind at 15* really sucks.

Till then here is one of my Dennis Myers Hens that is in the breeding pen with her son,




Here are a few RC LF Reds





Chris

 

[Marengoite]

Quote:

I have 4 cockerels that should be in the crock pot, but it's just too cold to process outside. They've pretty much established their pecking order, but every now and then one of them will try to bully my Buckeye roo. He's easy to underestimate because he doesn't start fights. But the SSHs are snappy and spunky and every now and then they'll raise their hackles at him. Mistake. I've never seen a mark on him, not even a peck mark on his comb. The Hamburgs, though, need serious convincing before they'll stop bothering him.

I'm wondering if "Dutch Everyday Layer" is just piece of century-old marketing hype. I have 4 SSH pullets and never had more than two white eggs a day at the end of last year.We'll see what they do in the spring when it warms up. My Golden comet is back to laying and one of the Buckeyes started up. Got a double-yolker from one of them. I will have to say that the Hamburgs are very interesting chickens, totally independent from the rest of the flock, but they stay tightly flocked on their own. Even now, the LF are all huddled out of the wind behind my mini-A-frame grow-out pen and the Hamburgs are hanging out in what used to be a brooder that was then converted to a feed shelter and is currently just a windbreak.