Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[BarnGoddess01]

Quote:

You have 22% layer feed? Ours is only 16% here.
Calf Manna is like - 28% isn't it?
You use that high of protein feed all the time?

Layer (Purina) is 17% here in Canada. I supplement lightly with a 30% gamebird starter to bring my number to 20-22% using meat based protein (as opposed to all vegetable protein which seems to be "fashionable" these days.) I feed that to all my breeders; Silkies, Marans, Ameraucanas - and they all appear to be thriving on it. I start my chicks on 20% then drop the juveniles - 8 to 10 weeks - back to 15%. I prefer to grow them out slowly. I don't bump the protein back up until they are laying/breeding.

 

[bnjrob]

You have 22% layer feed? Ours is only 16% here.
Calf Manna is like - 28% isn't it?
You use that high of protein feed all the time?

I try to stay around 20%, and not go any higher.
I believe too high protein causes issues. I could be wrong, I dunno....
In my experience - I had at least 4 cock birds with gout and 1 with some kinda weird leg issues. I felt it was because I was feeding too much protein.

That's like here, mostly it's 15 or 16% for finisher/flock/layer. I get the 24% quail/turkey starter and have been feeding it to all ages to get the higher protein level.

They do carry the Purina Flock Raiser that is 20%, but it's vegetarian and I just haven't been sure about how they would do with the all vegetarian feed...

Calf Manna is 25%. I've supplemented with it as well as a game bird conditioner, especially when they are laying and trying to regrow feathers.

I do put vitamins in the water for chicks that are in brooders and saw a difference in growth as chicks, particularly leg size, after the vitamins were added.

I've read different articles on protein levels with some for and some against high protein with some citing organ damage or other problems with high protein, and others that didn't find problems with ongoing high protein. Seems there is no one way to do anything. As usual.

I've had it recommend to supplement with dog/cat food when needed, but our chickens won't eat it. .

 

[3riverschick]

Glad it's working for you too ! If you can get the kids to put a scoop of CM , Oats, scratch, each in a bucket at night, and soak it...just the grains, then add it in a pan. Watch them grow ! This WILL put the deep chests and bodies on those boys. And keep worming on a regular basis !.

Ok, do you soak the Calf Manna with the grains?
Thanks,
Karen

 

[thedragonlady]

Ok, do you soak the Calf Manna with the grains?
Thanks,
Karen

Chooks can be funny about those Calf Manna pellets. Sometimes they wolf them, and sometimes not. Soaking the CM in with the grains softens up those pellets, and the stuff is partially absorbed into the swollen grains. The result is no waste.

When you start adding whole grains to a good 20% ration, you are LOWERING the protein level . Adding the Calf Manna brings it up to the 20% level again. Herb Holtz from Iowa, told me about whole grains improving size, and body mass, years ago. He raised 2 groups of birds from the same breedings. One was fed whole grains in addition to their Starter. The other got ground grains added to make the same protein level. He slaughtered both groups. Not only were the whole grain fed birds larger, but their digestive tracts and gizzards were much larger. Anyone who saw Herb's birds had no doubt he knew what he was talking about. I have followed his advice for 40 years.

 

[colburg]

Chooks can be funny about those Calf Manna pellets. Sometimes they wolf them, and sometimes not. Soaking the CM in with the grains softens up those pellets, and the stuff is partially absorbed into the swollen grains. The result is no waste.

When you start adding whole grains to a good 20% ration, you are LOWERING the protein level . Adding the Calf Manna brings it up to the 20% level again. Herb Holtz from Iowa, told me about whole grains improving size, and body mass, years ago. He raised 2 groups of birds from the same breedings. One was fed whole grains in addition to their Starter. The other got ground grains added to make the same protein level. He slaughtered both groups. Not only were the whole grain fed birds larger, but their digestive tracts and gizzards were much larger. Anyone who saw Herb's birds had no doubt he knew what he was talking about. I have followed his advice for 40 years.

Do you feed them soaked whole grains from day 1? Or do you wait a couple of weeks?

Thanks,

 

[bnjrob]

Chooks can be funny about those Calf Manna pellets. Sometimes they wolf them, and sometimes not. Soaking the CM in with the grains softens up those pellets, and the stuff is partially absorbed into the swollen grains. The result is no waste.

When you start adding whole grains to a good 20% ration, you are LOWERING the protein level . Adding the Calf Manna brings it up to the 20% level again. Herb Holtz from Iowa, told me about whole grains improving size, and body mass, years ago. He raised 2 groups of birds from the same breedings. One was fed whole grains in addition to their Starter. The other got ground grains added to make the same protein level. He slaughtered both groups. Not only were the whole grain fed birds larger, but their digestive tracts and gizzards were much larger. Anyone who saw Herb's birds had no doubt he knew what he was talking about. I have followed his advice for 40 years.

Any idea what it is about adding in the grain to manufactured feed diet that makes a difference?

Is there a significance difference with soaking grains vs just adding the dry grains to the feed?

Does this seem to work with any grain or specifically oats?

 

[HEChicken]

Any idea what it is about adding in the grain to manufactured feed diet that makes a difference?

I can take a guess at this and others can add in their two cents and correct me if I am wrong....

My guess is that grinding grains starts the oxidation process, which reduces their nutritional value. This is the reason I buy only whole corn and other whole grains to throw out as a treat, rather than cracked corn and "scratch". Since manufactured feed is all ground, I would guess that it is lower in nutritional value overall, as opposed to the whole grains (though I agree with the above poster about whole grains being lower in protein than manufactured feed, which has additional protein added in). Additionally, I would guess that the reason the gizzards etc were larger is because the birds have to work a little harder to digest the whole grains vs. the processed (the difference between eating carrot sticks, or over-boiled carrots), so over time, the gizzard grows larger and stronger because it is getting a better workout.

 

[catdaddyfro]

Chooks can be funny about those Calf Manna pellets. Sometimes they wolf them, and sometimes not. Soaking the CM in with the grains softens up those pellets, and the stuff is partially absorbed into the swollen grains. The result is no waste.

When you start adding whole grains to a good 20% ration, you are LOWERING the protein level . Adding the Calf Manna brings it up to the 20% level again. Herb Holtz from Iowa, told me about whole grains improving size, and body mass, years ago. He raised 2 groups of birds from the same breedings. One was fed whole grains in addition to their Starter. The other got ground grains added to make the same protein level. He slaughtered both groups. Not only were the whole grain fed birds larger, but their digestive tracts and gizzards were much larger. Anyone who saw Herb's birds had no doubt he knew what he was talking about. I have followed his advice for 40 years.

yep on the CM and good advice on the feeding of chicks. I always supplement cracked grains to my chicks rations. I generally start them around the 2 week mark for the penned/caged ones. The ones running with the broodies outside get it from day one. I often wait the 2 weeks for the caged chicks to let them get a good gut full of starter feed and all its goodies(vitamins/minerals and meds*) before adding grains and GRIT(a must) as it is possible for them eat too much of the grit and not enough feed. I would want them having the feed the first few weeks as not take a chance of stunting/to hinder their growth or possibly effect their immune systems by malnutrition/deficiency.

Yes I use medicated starter/grower as coccidiosis runs rampant down here in the deep, wet south. It is a must here(at my place BTDT) esp after you spend oodles of money on chicks or eggs. For the folk that don't want to use it, you don't have too. Free choice its a constitutional right LOL

Jeff

 

[NYREDS]

I try to stay around 20%, and not go any higher.
I believe too high protein causes issues. I could be wrong, I dunno....
In my experience - I had at least 4 cock birds with gout and 1 with some kinda weird leg issues. I felt it was because I was feeding too much protein.

I feed a 22% protein grower & add a little scratch [wheat & cracked corn] so I'm orobably right around 20% overall also. I've never tried anything higher for chickens but have found they do much better on the program I feed now than they did on 16% protein.
Another advantage is I feed the 222% protein from the day they hatch 'till the day they die. Simplifies things greatly. I don't have to stock 3 feeds as so many do & I don't have to keep track of what pen gets which feed, there's only one feed. If I'm away for the weekend at a show my wife appreciates it. She used to have to take notes about which pen gets what feed, now there's only one feed.
Wish I could say I came up with this idea on my own but I got it from Rick Hare. seems to work well for his Rosecombs.

 

[thedragonlady]

Do you feed them soaked whole grains from day 1? Or do you wait a couple of weeks?

Thanks,

I start 1 week old chicks on Quaker rolled oats that are soaked, and added to their starter. They love 'em !