Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[gjensen]

Traditionally, part of what made a dual purpose breed dual purpose is that the "spent hens" had a use after their job was done.

One of the advantages of a dual purpose breed was that the extra cockerels could make good fryers, or even roasters.

There was always some breeds that were better "market birds". Sussex, Dorkings, Brahmas, etc.

Everything was changing at the turn of the century, and the ideas evolved further.

Now what is dual purpose is a broad subject, and no one considers the hen side of the equation. Dual Purpose does not mean, and never did, that the cockerels were quick to grow out. Some do of course.

Some breeds and strains of breeds strike a balance between the two goals better than others. Which that is can be argued forever. Personally, the most modern American breeds have the most potential. For example the NH and the Delaware. The cockerels should flesh out early, and the pullets should start relatively early. The hens could be able to lay 200-220 good sized eggs per year. They require a lot of grain, but they can still utilize green forage well. I think that is as good as you can get. Any better in either direction takes away from the other side. Those ideals, are a good all around bird.

It takes a lot of money to grow your own roasters out. You do not spend as much on 14wk old fryers though. I am speaking of $ per pound. 200 - 220 eggs will almost pay for a hen's feed bill.

My view of what dual purpose is broad, and what I look for in a bird is for them to be an all round bird. The numbers do not lie.

I used the two breeds to illustrate an idea. Not debate what really is better or not.

 

[ocap]

Bob:
my wife had a case of high blood pressure, found out she is in the minority when it comes to the effects of "ibuprophin" (spelling might be wrong) the main ingredient in motrin. The fine print has a caution about blood pressure. Her large number went to 193 with only two tablets.

 

[NanaKat]

Bob, Thoughts and prayers for a speedy recovery and a healthy outlook.

 

[cluck-cluck]

The biggest thing I have seen on good Dual purpose breeds is a bigger difference in the size and growth rate between the Cockerels and the pullets. The Cockerels get big fast!

Interesting! It would be great if the cockerels were to grow faster...and I do believe mine did grow faster than the pullet, but not by much... But I'm just starting out ;P

Traditionally, part of what made a dual purpose breed dual purpose is that the "spent hens" had a use after their job was done.

One of the advantages of a dual purpose breed was that the extra cockerels could make good fryers, or even roasters.

There was always some breeds that were better "market birds". Sussex, Dorkings, Brahmas, etc.

Everything was changing at the turn of the century, and the ideas evolved further.

Now what is dual purpose is a broad subject, and no one considers the hen side of the equation. Dual Purpose does not mean, and never did, that the cockerels were quick to grow out. Some do of course.

Some breeds and strains of breeds strike a balance between the two goals better than others. Which that is can be argued forever. Personally, the most modern American breeds have the most potential. For example the NH and the Delaware. The cockerels should flesh out early, and the pullets should start relatively early. The hens could be able to lay 200-220 good sized eggs per year. They require a lot of grain, but they can still utilize green forage well. I think that is as good as you can get. Any better in either direction takes away from the other side. Those ideals, are a good all around bird.

It takes a lot of money to grow your own roasters out. You do not spend as much on 14wk old fryers though. I am speaking of $ per pound. 200 - 220 eggs will almost pay for a hen's feed bill.

My view of what dual purpose is broad, and what I look for in a bird is for them to be an all round bird. The numbers do not lie.

I used the two breeds to illustrate an idea. Not debate what really is better or not.

It seems, as in all things, the answer is more complex and of course, I must choose (probably with the tendancies my birds have) what I want to breed for. At this point, the Crevecoeurs I have are so under weight and have other SOP problems, that this will hopefully resolve when/if I can improve them. Still, I appreciate this thoughtful answer, thank you!

 

[3riverschick]

Quote: No. The Sussex is an excellent example. The hens lay and raise the chicks. The males are excellent eating. Broomhead mentions that the pelvic bones on the females should be thin,. It is a real balancing act. Too narrow for laying and the carcass for meat isn't there. Broomhead does mention that instead of going for the extreme keel, Sussex should have a proper keel and more length of back. Walt, can you speak to this? Broomhead doesn't give a why for the extra back length. Thanks!
Best,
Karen

 

[thedragonlady]

No. The Sussex is an excellent example. The hens lay and raise the chicks. The males are excellent eating. Broomhead mentions that the pelvic bones on the females should be thin,. It is a real balancing act. Too narrow for laying and the carcass for meat isn't there. Broomhead does mention that instead of going for the extreme keel, Sussex should have a proper keel and more length of back. Walt, can you speak to this? Broomhead doesn't give a why for the extra back length. Thanks!
Best,
Karen

I can give you a clue on this one before Walt chimes in. I've noticed that my longer backed SOP Buffs and crosses to English , are much better layers than the shorter backed English.The keels on the SOP x English birds may be a whisker shallower than on the English, but they are plenty deep. Anything approaching Cochin body type does not lay nearly as well. My SOP x English crosses start laying at 5 months, and lay steadily for at least 10 months, if they have the stiff main tails, and a slightly longer back.

 

[OSUman]

Im guessing it has to do with genetics and nutrition. These birds have white legs in their not to distant history, and I am not to experienced at conditioning birds to make them the best that they can be.

first time seeing this breed..he looks in very good condition..when the legs are lighter, is it reflected in the skin? a paler color? ive always wondered if feed makes a difference in the leg color..you see some breeds at shows looks like the legs were spray painted yellow...
Quote:

 

[Pozees]

Bob,
You have to look at the fact that you have been the start of so many lines of heritage breeds. Your birds will go on, and I'm sure will have your guidance. Mentoring is hard work though. I'm glad you have the bantams to feed your soul on a daily basis.

X2

 

[cbnovick]

"abdominal spacing

I have been out of it for about a week. My blood pressure went through the roof and had vision problems. Sunday I took all the Mottle Javas to Anthony P. in Melanino Florida about thirty miles North of Pensacola. Anthony had raised my white rocks for about four years. He and our good friend from Texas who got the ten chicks are now in charge of taking care of them and spread them to others in the next year. Hope to have a trio to share with some very interested person at the Newnan Georgia Show this February.

Also, just got back from taking two pair of my old white rocks and seven chicks to Frank H. in Mifflin Alabama he has had my white rocks for over ten years. I am now out of large fowl.

Got to cut back as just cant handle the labor of the place and all the chickens.

One thing I noticed and thought about after I took my last White Rocks off of my place after 21 years was a hen looked at me and said what are you doing to us. I told her you are going to a better place. You have been prisoned in a 8x8 pen for six months can not go out side and walk or even look for a bug or a blade of grass because of varmints. Where I am taking you have a 12x12 foot hen house six nests, and a fifty by 100 foot yard fenced in. The new owner will let you out in the early am and lock you up at night to protect you. You will live a life of Riley.

When we put them in the big yard with the other six white rocks their old aunts and uncles from four years ago they flopped their wings and said farewell. I will go see them every six months or so but a old line which I had for me is over.

I will work with my Rhode Island Red Bantams and try to keep them going and Walt I got seven Buff Silkies to raise up and keep.

In regards to "abdominal spacing I did not catch this when I read it this mourning but then When I saw the Call of the Hen book above it all registered. If you breed with his concepts like I use to do and push for high egg production, you will get good feather quality and good finger spacing in the right places. Great book on of my favorites I ever read. bob

Bob,
I sure have enjoyed ALL your posts...very educating, interesting and lots of wit thrown in for good measure! I always get a chuckle or 2 from some of your statements. When things settle down a bit, I hope you continue to inspire us on this thread. Sorry you needed to downsize...but it is what it is...You've definitely made your mark on the poultry world with your Rocks etc...

By the way, I have 3 of 12 eggs (12 of 18 made it to day 18) of the Roebuck Buff rocks pipped tonight on day 20.
Sure will be excited to see these chicks hatched out and watch them grow out!

Thank you. Without your referral, I would never have had the chance at these.

 

[maryhysong]

I'm wondering what you would physically want in a duel purpose breed? Obviously, you want decent layers, yet you want meat on the birds. It seems as if these things are mutually exclusive. Are they? Or can you have thin-flexible pelvic bones yet a meaty bird? In the case of duel purpose breeds, do you try to strike a balance?

I don't remember off the top of my head all the details, but in Hogan's book he gives you tables of measurements with the approximate # of eggs laid based on those measurements. He worked with Leghorns but said this method works with any breed. For a dual purpose bird you would take basically the middle ranges, They will lay fewer eggs but should be meatier than the ranges with high numbers of eggs laid. While the largest pelvic bone thickness measurements indicate basically a meat bird that lays few eggs.

Around here I eat anything big enough to dress out, usually starting with the boys at about 3=4 months. Some of the bigger breeds like my Black Copper Marans and Buff Orpingtons will dress out around 2-2 1/2 pounds at that age, some a little bigger some a little smaller. The easter eggers and Welsummers are a little smaller and take a little longer to get the same size. Also they seem to grow more slowly, but both are more egg layers than meaties. Older birds make fine soup and stock.

None of mine grow out with the huge breasts you see on commercial meat chickens and if that is what you are after, you probably should raise the Cornish X. But my guys give me plenty of meat, especially on the legs and back that you won't see on that grocery store chicken.