Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[cluck-cluck]

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By the way, I have 3 of 12 eggs (12 of 18 made it to day 18) of the Roebuck Buff rocks pipped tonight on day 20.
Sure will be excited to see these chicks hatched out and watch them grow out!

Thank you. Without your referral, I would never have had the chance at these.

I'm so excited to see! Please post pictures. I hope all 12 hatch!

I don't remember off the top of my head all the details, but in Hogan's book he gives you tables of measurements with the approximate # of eggs laid based on those measurements. He worked with Leghorns but said this method works with any breed. For a dual purpose bird you would take basically the middle ranges, They will lay fewer eggs but should be meatier than the ranges with high numbers of eggs laid. While the largest pelvic bone thickness measurements indicate basically a meat bird that lays few eggs.

Around here I eat anything big enough to dress out, usually starting with the boys at about 3=4 months. Some of the bigger breeds like my Black Copper Marans and Buff Orpingtons will dress out around 2-2 1/2 pounds at that age, some a little bigger some a little smaller. The easter eggers and Welsummers are a little smaller and take a little longer to get the same size. Also they seem to grow more slowly, but both are more egg layers than meaties. Older birds make fine soup and stock.

None of mine grow out with the huge breasts you see on commercial meat chickens and if that is what you are after, you probably should raise the Cornish X. But my guys give me plenty of meat, especially on the legs and back that you won't see on that grocery store chicken.

I just want, eventually, to have a full wasteless setup where I have use for everything I'm hoping we might move in the next few years where I can run something properly.

No. The Sussex is an excellent example. The hens lay and raise the chicks. The males are excellent eating. Broomhead mentions that the pelvic bones on the females should be thin,. It is a real balancing act. Too narrow for laying and the carcass for meat isn't there. Broomhead does mention that instead of going for the extreme keel, Sussex should have a proper keel and more length of back. Walt, can you speak to this? Broomhead doesn't give a why for the extra back length. Thanks!
Best,
Karen

Thanks, I get the idea To simplify my head, I will breed to the SOP as straightforward as possible That just involves, probably the equivilent of a doctorial in genetics with exceptional talant to boot, but heck, I'll give it a go

I've gotta be good at something, maybe this will be it,

BTW, what exactly is prepotant? Is it something you can measure? I'm off to take kid to appointment and am downloading google book to read while there, ROFL. Maybe I'll come back understanding, probably not, hee hee hee.

 

[BGMatt]

Thanks, I get the idea To simplify my head, I will breed to the SOP as straightforward as possible That just involves, probably the equivilent of a doctorial in genetics with exceptional talant to boot, but heck, I'll give it a go

I've gotta be good at something, maybe this will be it,

Breeding to the SOP requires 2 things (ok 3), knowing what you're looking for, the ability to raise a bunch of chickens, and a good appetite for chicken (I prefer BBQ myself, but baked, stewed, fried are all good choices as well).

 

[maryhysong]

I'm so excited to see! Please post pictures. I hope all 12 hatch!

I just want, eventually, to have a full wasteless setup where I have use for everything I'm hoping we might move in the next few years where I can run something properly.

Thanks, I get the idea To simplify my head, I will breed to the SOP as straightforward as possible That just involves, probably the equivilent of a doctorial in genetics with exceptional talant to boot, but heck, I'll give it a go

I've gotta be good at something, maybe this will be it,

BTW, what exactly is prepotant? Is it something you can measure? I'm off to take kid to appointment and am downloading google book to read while there, ROFL. Maybe I'll come back understanding, probably not, hee hee hee.

Prepotent in the sense Hogan uses it is the ability to pass along their good points to their offspring. He has a way of measuring the head of the bird (I'm still figuring that one out myself) to tell if the bird will pass it's good type onto it's children. A bit like you can who are the parents by looking at the kids; they all look like their mother or their father.

 

[cluck-cluck]

I think I understand now, having read the article I linked. Now I must find Hogan's writings, LOL. Thank you

I just find these books from a hundred years ago difficult to read. The use of language has changed so much, we are now so much more straight forward, I think, and blunt. I prefer that, LOL

Back to "Call of the Hen"....

 

[colburg]

I have had male birds that would sire better than average offspring no matter what female I put them on. IMO that is "prepotency". It is the male and when put on the right females they sired champions ....one after another. Every bird from these males was better than average and it didn't seem to matter how the female looked. I haven't seen a lot of these males in my career, but the one's I have had were amazing.

Walt

Thanks everyone for the replies. Maybe I should rephrase the question.

Does anyone know of research or have experience with Hogans method of measuring the skulls for prepotency?

 

[thedragonlady]

Prepotent in the sense Hogan uses it is the ability to pass along their good points to their offspring. He has a way of measuring the head of the bird (I'm still figuring that one out myself) to tell if the bird will pass it's good type onto it's children. A bit like you can who are the parents by looking at the kids; they all look like their mother or their father.

Ah, here's where it gets interesting ! Invitro studies done at Perdue years ago on sheep proved that the DNA combination/ sperm that produced "Super Lamb" was walled out during a subsequent breeding to the same male. The ova are immune.Breeding to a different male/ DNA combination will break the immunity.Mother Nature likes genetic diversity.

There was a great producing Thoroughbred mare called Hildene. Every one of her foals were stakes winners. She was NEVER bred to the same sire twice in a row.Her owner would breed her out, and then breed back to the proven sire.That broke the immunity. Look up her producing record.

Man'O War's dam , Mahubah was never bred to any sire but Fair Play. She was known as his wife.She never produced anything approaching Man 'O War. She was immune to that genetic combination.

If you look at large families of children you will see that every other child looks somewhat alike. Never 2 in a row.

When you get a great hatch of super chicks, breed that hen to anything , and pitch the eggs. Then breed her back to super male.It works, and the studies at Perdue confirm it.

 

[cluck-cluck]

Ah, here's where it gets interesting ! Invitro studies done at Perdue years ago on sheep proved that the DNA combination/ sperm that produced "Super Lamb" was walled out during a subsequent breeding to the same male. The ova are immune.Breeding to a different male/ DNA combination will break the immunity.Mother Nature likes genetic diversity.

There was a great producing Thoroughbred mare called Hildene. Every one of her foals were stakes winners. She was NEVER bred to the same sire twice in a row.Her owner would breed her out, and then breed back to the proven sire.That broke the immunity. Look up her producing record.

Man'O War's dam , Mahubah was never bred to any sire but Fair Play. She was known as his wife.She never produced anything approaching Man 'O War. She was immune to that genetic combination.

If you look at large families of children you will see that every other child looks somewhat alike. Never 2 in a row.

When you get a great hatch of super chicks, breed that hen to anything , and pitch the eggs. Then breed her back to super male.It works, and the studies at Perdue confirm it.

That is so weird! Do you have a link to an article? I'd love to read more!

 

[3riverschick]

Quote: Maybe it is my ignorance showing, but I agree with you. I think the method of mating and concentrating virtue in a creature's ancestry is more important, nay, the defining incident for, that animal's ability to be prepotent. Based on 15 years of intensive study of breeding systems in several species, and the creatures they produced. Course none of those creatures were avian. Once again I will refer to W.H. Card who states in his concise treatise on breeding fowl, that his method is not new. That it is 200 years old and works with any species. http://archive.org/stream/cu31924003158312#page/n23/mode/2up Starting at about page 12 and running thru the end of Chapter 2. Notice when he talks about the undercolours affecting the top color. It's a definite break ion the conversation when you can tell he is discussing eb brown Black and white Columbian (colored underfluff) and then the eWh black and white Columbian ( white underfluff).
Best,
Karen

 

[maryhysong]

I think I understand now, having read the article I linked. Now I must find Hogan's writings, LOL. Thank you

I just find these books from a hundred years ago difficult to read. The use of language has changed so much, we are now so much more straight forward, I think, and blunt. I prefer that, LOL

Back to "Call of the Hen"....

ah yes, but I grew up reading older books and classic literature. I am used to the more flowery language. Yes we are more blunt and to the point now but I think in some cases we have lost a lot of romance and other things in the process.

 

[cbnovick]

Today I hatched 11 of 18 LF Buff Rock eggs all the way from Virginia to AZ.
61% hatch rate is not too shabby especially since it's been hotter and drier than Hell's Kitchen here in AZ.

Nice, clean hatches and lively, big chicks. 12 went to day 18...then 11 of those hatched 'on time' at day 21.

I will post pics when they have dried and in brooder.
So thrilled that I now actually have some standard bred LF Buff Rocks...many thanks to Bob Blosl and Tom Roebuck.

Now, I will aspire to do my best to grow them out 'proper' in this dreadful AZ heat over the next 3 months...