Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[Regin]

If some birds are more resistant or have immunities to Marek's and other 'fowl' illneses, is there a way of telling which are resistant?

Would it be by breed, strain, flock, or just individual birds?

 

[Pathfinders]

Okay, as long as we're talking Continental, here is my other major project in the section. I just love them.

Deb,

Those are your bantams, right?

Still considering getting LF Lakenvelders next year...

 

[Pathfinders]

Good post BGMatt... There is a tremendous amount of misinformation on this site when it comes to illnesses in chickens.

I have a question. I have been driving myself crazy reading this, that and the other thread about Marek's, reading the page from the University of New Hampshire saying it is everywhere, that if you have an adult flock it has been exposed and your birds are either naturally immune or vaccinated immune, and I have read a few other pages with information about Marek's.

I have seen repeated several times here on BYC (no where else) that if you have had a bird with Marek's you should never sell eggs or chicks. I have read that the disease is not vertical - that it is not transmitted to any eggs laid, and that chicks may have natural immunities from their parents from 3 days to 4 weeks post hatch.

I have read that the vaccine one can purchase is live vaccine but that it is not live chicken Marek's vaccine, it is live Turkey Marek's, so even if the live vaccine is shed it cannot harm chickens.

I have read that no matter what, all chicks should be vaccinated against it, and read that declining to vaccinate (as I know many here do) eventually results in a flock that is naturally immune to the disease.

Most of this I can make sense of; what I cannot wrap my head around is, if Marek's is everywhere, then why would anyone believe it wrong to sell chicks from a flock which once had a member succumb to the disease? If anything, I would think the surviving members of the flock would have immunities they are passing along to their get. Am I missing something important here?

Thanks for any insights you provide.

Judi

Matt is absolutely right.

The thing about Marek's Disease is, it's everywhere. Literally everywhere. People go to the feed store with their poopy boots, and they track it into the feed store. Or Wal-Mart, or the hardware store. And of course, the show hall. So you're going to run into it sooner or later if you breed poultry. And you have to decide which way you want to go: vaccinate, or breed for resistance. Making that decision is sometimes going to depend on what breed you're working with, as some are more resistant than others.

When I bred Dutch Bantams, I always vaccinated, as for whatever reason, Dutch just do not develop a good resistance to Marek's, and the losses I had when I didn't vaccinate were not acceptable. Now that I am focusing solely on Buckeye large fowl, I am breeding for resistance, and am having very good success.

So it's not a cut and dried situation, and each breeder must make their own decision on whether or not to vaccinate based on their level of tolerance for loss, taking into consideration the breed they are working with and the resistance of that breed.

 

[Pathfinders]

If some birds are more resistant or have immunities to Marek's and other 'fowl' illneses, is there a way of telling which are resistant?

Would it be by breed, strain, flock, or just individual birds?

In my experience, it is breed.

 

[TheNuttyChick]

So not vaccinating birds is acceptable? It almost seems like in my area you're almost blacklisted if you don't. Maybe it's just the show people? Maybe it's the breeders? I would think that breeding for resistance is better but if you're thinking about selling, nobody wants to buy eggs/chicks from you if they aren't vaccinated. ****** if you do, ****** if you don't?

 

[TheNuttyChick]

Sorry, didn't know you can't say that.

 

[fowlman01]

In my experience, it is breed.

I agree. Some breeds seem more prone to it.

Walt

 

[Pozees]

I agree. Some breeds seem more prone to it.

Walt

Thank you all for your answers on this topic, I deeply appreciate it. I would be interested in knowing what breeds tend to be more susceptible - thanks for mentioning that Dutch are, what others would one be more likely to vaccinate? Is there a percentage loss above which vaccination is indicated? I know nothing is hard and fast with poultry, just looking for some guidance. The decisions you all have made along the way will help me and others to make them in a more informed state of mind.

 

[Robert Blosl]

http://javahillfarm.com/JHF/Endangered_Breeds.html

Of all the hundreds of chicken people I have know in the past twenty plus years I only know two who do it to prevent maricks.. So its not common. You are better
off just setting one goal the day you start raising and breeding chickens. Use the Fit of the Fittest Principle on you birds. Just pretend you are a hawk up in a tree and you look at the flock on the ground. He will thin out your bad weakest birds for you. The strong will survive because they got their God given traits in them to do it. Old timers who I studied did not dope up their chickens. The would live, hatch and thrive on their farms. So don't help them out of the eggs, don't use backyard silliness ideas they are a chicken still and you will do just fine. Feed them a good ration as they are growing up medicated chick feed is what most people use some don't some pay a price by not doing it. Feed the breeders a top notch animal protein type feed and you will be just fine.

In line breeding for beginners KISS don't get all hung up on this stuff. Look what Yard Full of Rocks had to work with. He had a pen one male and pen two female and pen one female.

He mated the best daughters back to the original male the best ckls back to the two old females the next year. Then the third year you can come up with another combination. But don't worry in your first two years you will learn and have a plan.

I like to mate pairs or have two females in separate pens and rotate a male from one pen to the other every other day give the male a rest one day and put him in a separate pen then do it again.

I may split the season up in half one male for two months then the other for the remainder of the breeding season. The key here is toe punching these chicks and hatching them in a plastic basket in the incubator or have to little hatching incubators. You can line breed big time or small but if you do not ID these birds you are a going no place in a hurry. Most important think to do is breed for vigor, the breed type then try to put them in family's so you don't inbreed your birds into a corner,. In Scotts place his birds where crossed with brahma and rocks about five teen years ago. Vigor is not a issue with the out cross. Your odds are that the chickens you buy that are rare have been crossed from like Urch or Mrs Jones and they will have good vigor. If the chicks hatch good in he incubator and grow good should not be a issue. Of course we are not talking about a Thirty dollar cheap sty foam incubator that could mess up all what I am talking about. If you are going to go through all this hard work you got to have good incubators orr setting hens to do this. Lots of good information on the Capines and thank you for that. Looks like some of you are a few steps up the ladder on your progress. Maybe this lady who wants this beed can send you a personnel message and get some stock from you. GREAT POSTS.

 

[TheNuttyChick]

Thank you for the info, being fairly new and just starting out with breeding (personal flock, not for a profit) it does get confusing sometimes when all you hear is medicate, vaccinate, etc. All I want are strong and healthy birds with good genetics. Maybe I'm just too old fashioned and not into the medication part of the chicken business?