Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[Fred's Hens]

OK, I'll post a photo of a poor bird. Some folks here always ask for a "poor" example. I suspect they want to see what to avoid or to see what they have they suspect is poor and these photos confirm this for them. Visual people are like that and I understand.

Sometimes it helps your "eye" to see what NOT to have in one's flock.







OK, look at where the legs are positioned on this pullet of a similar age.

 

[ronott1]

OK, I'll post a photo of a poor bird. Some folks here always ask for a "poor" example. I suspect they want to see what to avoid or to see what they have they suspect is poor and these photos confirm this for them. Visual people are like that and I understand.

Sometimes it helps your "eye" to see what NOT to have in one's flock.







OK, look at where the legs are positioned on this pullet of a similar age.

chickens like the one in the top picture remind my of kids running with their hands tied behind their back.

They look like they are awkward and uncomfortable.

 

[3riverschick]

Quote: Perfect description! I was thinking that posture looked familiar too. Remember the pics of Sherlock Holmes when he clasped his hands behind his back and would moodily stride back and forth mulling on a problem? Ha!
Best,
Karen
Thank you Bob, for the exposition on "Station"! It really helps!

 

[Pathfinders]

Quote:
Distorted faces would stink, no question. I think Buckeyes do well with the higher protein in part due to the Gamefowl in their genetics.

 

[lualshannon]

Station is a term I think about all the time when I look at my young bird from the beginning of the time I got into Reds and Rocks 24 years this time around. Old timers to mentored me as a youth and the old men Interviewed before they died in the early days of my breeding. One great mentor was Maurice Wallace of Canada. He was the one who sold Mrs. Donaldson the great male Mohawk V in 1929 to Mrs. Donaldson and this is the male that I stumbled onto about fifteen years ago with my line and I called the Mohawk Line of Reds. He was there all the time I just pushed a few buttons in my selections and he came to the surface. This is what he taught me. Always look for a bird with his legs PLUM. Or dead center to the side profile of the bird when he is walking on the ground. If your males legs are back say just one inch the male will tilt backwards and be what is called Rainy Day Reds. He said the females or sisters of such a male can be off and still maintain her level body but her sons will be always rainy day. Get this breed into your family lines and you got a major fault that will haunt you forever. Same in other dual purpose birds you want those legs dead center PLUM nice in wide as one master breeder said you want to be able to drive truck between those birds legs. Next thing a old Rock Breeder told me is you want your legs on your birds mainly your males strong. You want your legs to be as big around a Broom Handles. If he is PUM has good strong legs well set in his body you got a foundation or frame to hold the birds weight. I have seen Rock males so weak in leg strength when you feed them in a conditioning coop they will sit down and eat do to leg weakness. You never want to breed from such a male with weak leg strength small bone structure. When Jim Volk sent me 14 chicks 24 years ago to start with White Rocks they were from two strains. I saw one strain had smaller bone structure and the ones from California which I kept had legs as big as Broom Sticks. I got rid of the other ten chicks and never looked back and my strain of over 24 years still has that classic Halbach Rock bone structure plus they have yellow pigment in their skin. I had a male I saw at a show when I first got started 24 years ago a Red male he stood on his one leg for 14 minutes. Never saw such strength in a Red male in my life. When I selected him and his two brothers I wanted that trait to build my frame in my future Mohawk strain. Other brother was so darn smart he had yard sense. The other brother was just a big old long bodied brick shaped male with a little of everything. Today I see this in some of the large fowl but would you believe in my bantams which I shrunk down from these old large fowl. Hope this helps the issue of Station in a large fowl old fashion dual-purpose chicken. It is PARAMOUNT as Harold Tompkins use to say so it's a good term to have in your mind's eye as you select your future breeders for next year. Good example look at some of the old APA pictures of Art Schilling such as Orps Reds, Rocks, Javas New Hampshire ect. All legs are dead center and Plum. Great question and that's what makes this thread so valuable. As others may have written about me I try to write for the beginner. You got to know this stuff to be successful s in these old breeds. If you only knew what these old timers did and you do what they did you will end up like them some days. Of course I can jump out of this method and want to cross a good Rose Comb Red onto one of my Old Mohawk Reds single comb and I preach to you don't do it. I know what I am getting myself and my partner into. It can be done but it's a long hard road to get there. I am a mountain climber to a degree. I like it when people tell me I CANT DO THAT. I know I can and then I set out to prove them wrong. They say that also with Breed Clubs. If you approach it right s a secretary and surround yourself with good members you can take a breed club and turn it around in about two years. Nuf Said. Got motivated the other day and going to redo my hole poultry buildings for the next ten years. Give me something to do and maybe I will improve what time I have left with what I have. Keep asking questions we will find answers and no question is not to important to ask. We all learn from this stuff. DONT WE LURKERS. I love you guys. By the way they may not post but they ask me questions on my personnel page. So I am happy to help them as well. bob

look at white rock male by my name. Schilling did this picture. Look at his leg station. PERFECT

Thank you for the information about the placement of the legs; excellent lesson! After reading your article, I spent couple of hours watching legs, and took photos as well. I am wondering if the legs are always "dead center" all through out their growth, or does it change during their awkward, juvenile stage.

 

[thedragonlady]

OK, I'll post a photo of a poor bird. Some folks here always ask for a "poor" example. I suspect they want to see what to avoid or to see what they have they suspect is poor and these photos confirm this for them. Visual people are like that and I understand.

Sometimes it helps your "eye" to see what NOT to have in one's flock.







OK, look at where the legs are positioned on this pullet of a similar age.

Gracious ! This should be clear to everyone ! Thanks Fred !

If you can't see the difference; BUY A STANDARD !

 

[thedragonlady]

Thank you for the information about the placement of the legs; excellent lesson! After reading your article, I spent couple of hours watching legs, and took photos as well. I am wondering if the legs are always "dead center" all through out their growth, or does it change during their awkward, juvenile stage.

The legs on a bird are like the balance point of a teeter-totter. Too much weight on one end causes it to go down. An efficient critter must be balanced.

A bird's balance point will change as it grows. You may see cockerels particularly, go up in one end ,or another. Wait for those birds to mature, IF they are excellent in all other points.

Great illustration, Fred. That poor varmit wouldn't have made to that age here. Narrow, and shallow breasted, for starters. I keep trying to say SOMETING good about it. To be polite; it has nice yellow legs.

 

[fowlman01]

I am away at the state fair, hot to the people I know means to much protein

w

 

[Lacy Blues]

There is a vast difference between a horse's digestive system, and a chicken's. A horse gets" hot " from the TDN/ total digestible nutrients, plus protein and fat in feeds that provide energy . I have always fed added corn in the winter to give them the fat and calories , and fed less in the warmer months.

A chicken stays warm from the indigestible fiber in it's feed . The crop is a fermentation vat that produces heat from breaking down that fiber, more like a ruminant. I feed less fiber ( whole grains ) in the summer. I would not feed birds beet pulp at all in the summer. It has a small amount of sugar, but is all fiber. It is used to prevent colic in horses by keeping things moving through the intestines, rather like Metamucil.

It is very hot and muggy here now. My birds are on Flockraiser , with Calf Manna, and hulled sunflower seeds added. I have birds in molt, and the trick now is to get them to consume enough protein and fat to grow nice plumage, without overheating them.The Flockraiser and the CM are ground , and require very little effort to digest, while not making gas/heat in the crop.The hulled sunflower seeds also are easier to digest than the BOSS, which I feed in the winter. The hulls of BOSS are what produce heat in the crop, while the seed kernels provide fat and energy.

My birds turn into lawnmowers when the weather turns hot too.They want the tender stuff, thank you, and follow me behind the mower eating that ,and any bugs. It looks like I'm being pursued by a flock of very portly buff egrets. They want the moisture and vitamins of the less fibrous new shoots , plus those high protein tasty bugs .Any veggies, melons etc., are high on their list too.

Feeding is an art. There is an old saying that a horse, thin at Christmas, will be a hat rack by Valentines Day. I've found it to be true. You have to adjust feeding for climate and energy expended, whether that energy is needed to stay warm , or work. It works for chickens too.

My vets have been in practice for many years, using traditional medicine. A few years ago, they started integrating Chinese medicine into their practice. Much of it involves foods that are heating or cooling.
If you scroll down, there is a list of heating or cooling foods here. It's written for people, but they said that the same applies to animals. They have warned me against feeding oats in our summer heat.

http://www.chinesemedicinedoc.com/b...cles-and-handouts/diet-chinese-medicine/#temp

My thanks to both of you. Gives me a lot to think about.

 

[Extra Java]

OK, I'll post a photo of a poor bird. Some folks here always ask for a "poor" example. I suspect they want to see what to avoid or to see what they have they suspect is poor and these photos confirm this for them. Visual people are like that and I understand.

Sometimes it helps your "eye" to see what NOT to have in one's flock.







OK, look at where the legs are positioned on this pullet of a similar age.

Thanks for the photos.

Has the above hen been culled? It would be very interesting to see the anatomical structure without feathers in the way. I do understand what to look for, I just thought it would be interesting to see. I would imagine that the pelvis is narrow and this would also interfere with egg production.

Also, if one has over 100 13 week old chicks to evaluate, is there an easy way to do this? All my chicks are black which makes things difficult and whenever they see me, it's a stampede! I'll spot culls and then they get lost in the crowd. I pick them off 5 or so at a time - go out with a flashlight and identify them to pull for fattening etc. But is there an easier way that I'm not thinking of?

Thanks