Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[neopolitancrazy]

...
Background: What I have now is over 100 hatchery birds, various hatchery breeds, chickens, ducks, and turkeys, the oldest of which were bought in April of 2012. We've added a few more batches of chicks, poults and ducklings since last April, and have also hatched out some mutts here.
...

I really don't think we've had any serious health issues with our flock ... very few deaths, predator or otherwise.

Could you please be more specific? In the past year, exactly how many deaths have you had due to illness, how many to presumed predators, and how long had you owned each animal before it died or disappeared?

The thing is, if you have a serious predator or infectious problem, that needs to be addressed FIRST so that your "real" birds will be safe and well when you bring them to their new home. This thread is also a great place to get advice on those issues.

Best wishes,
Angela

 

[Robert Blosl]

How to ID your large fowl after they come out of the Hatcher for 2014 season

On small scale a breeder who has only a few birds per year just try different things.
Using Spiral bands and changes them as they grow older: White band right leg 2011 pen one white spiral band left leg pen two 2011.
Red spiral band right leg 2012 Red band left leg pen 2.
The blue band for 2013 same method
For 2104 go with another color pink greed whatever. Got to write this down in a log book, but you also have this in your brain.
Toe punch with to families you can go no punch with pen one outside right toe pen two outside toe left foot pen three. Double punch left foot could be pen three double punch right foot pen four. You can make your own method or use the chart as a guide no law or guide says what you have to do as long as you know the code.

Wing banding. I will toe punch pen one, two, and three ect Get you some 5x7 cards some magic markers red blue black green ect or finger nail polish and I do this. Chick number one gets red mark over right eye chick two over left eye chick number three red mark boat eyes. Chick number four red black or right chick number five green ect make up your own combinations. Chick number six or seven could have a black mark on the head and a red toe nail paint on tier toe nail to ID the chick. You want his pen number and his mark over his eye to ID him or her so you can come back later and wing band him.
Then place these marks on the five by seven cards. A week later put the wing band into the chick number one transfer his or her number in a corner and it a done deal. Do the same with the other chicks till that lot or batch of chicks are done. I like to have ten chicks in a brooder to study but that’s just me.​

If you want to use Jiffy stainless steel wing bands for every buddy that’s fine. They sell wing bands with color and you could then tie that in with your leg band colors.
Leg bands with colors: I have always used leg bands like white with black letters so I can see the numbers from a distance. I have a old cheap binocular that I can look through and see the number but after a while I can tell by the bird what his or her number are. I make notes on a pad and transfer to my 5x7 cards for rate of growth, feather quality, type color ect. Then when the time comes to pick the top birds I have some intelligent idea who will make the breeding or show team and who will go.
This year I am on my 25 year with shrinking down my large fowl Reds to bantams. I plan to have 12 mating with six females. I will hatch maybe 200 chicks. All will have to be toe punched and wing banded. Many of these guys will leave at 14 days for combs and then two months for combs type ect.

Then buy August a year from now I should be down to 50 stated birds and then buy October 30. I will only keep about 20 of these birds for future breeders for 2015.
Keep it simple if you are small. Try what other do then after you try it convert to what you like best. You and your personality is what counts not what someone else’s does. If you study ten good chicken people which we have on this thread you can take one or two of their good traits the use and apply it to your program. Then in two to three years you will be happy with works good for you your climate and your poultry plant set up from what you learned from them. This is my system which is simple and what I have done for years. Works for me but can be modified to your likes.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Could you please be more specific? In the past year, exactly how many deaths have you had due to illness, how many to presumed predators, and how long had you owned each animal before it died or disappeared?

The thing is, if you have a serious predator or infectious problem, that needs to be addressed FIRST so that your "real" birds will be safe and well when you bring them to their new home. This thread is also a great place to get advice on those issues.

Best wishes,
Angela

I don't really know what's worth mentioning and what is not, so I'll put down anything/everything I can think of.

I'll start with what worries me most: Illness:
Occasionally we've had an adult bird that will "cough" or "honk" for a day, and then they are fine. They don't look to be ill in any way ... no different from any of the other birds. Eating, drinking, scratching. No nasal discharge, no funky smell, no puffed up feathers, no huddling in a corner. No subsequent death. We have not culled or segregated any bird who has had this ... I can count exactly 2 birds (one hen, one rooster) that I know have done this. If there is a nasty bird virus percolating in my flock this the only sign of it, but I don't know if there is any way to test for it, or fit that is necessary.


I've seen a couple cases of vent issues that I've treated with warm soakings and "fixing" a prolapse and treating with athlete's foot cream if it seems to be a stinky situation. These tend to resolve very quickly.

Predator Problems:
Two young ducks (out of four) decapitated by predators ... we think it was an owl and seem to have solved the problem. That's it. Most of our birds are in fenced runs during the day and coops at night. No break-ins so far. I consider we've been lucky on this. It is a rural area with woods and open fields.

Deaths:
One of our first batch of BBB turkeys (5 total) expired very shortly before Thanksgiving last year. He was huge. We ate him anyway as we were right there when he went down so processed him immediately.

This year's BBB turkeys we've already lost 4 (out of 25). No signs of previous problems. We called the extension service and vets and they say "it happens", especially with a larger flock, especially with "meat bird" breeds. Not to worry (I do worry). Sometimes they die, sometimes they cull each other (did I mention I still worry?). It didn't seem to be blackhead, though they didn't recommend investigating, etc. I still worry. But our turkeys are not mixed in with our chickens, and we don't intend to keep them.

We had one chicken hen mated by a drake and die. She was one of 4 free-ranging hens, the drake was also free-ranging. I think that situation explains itself ... we have/had a duck habitat built especially to keep this from happening, but for some reason my partners wouldn't agree to use it until the "murder" and subsequent extreme fit I pitched about it.

We had one hen die of complications from bumblefoot. Again, I think that explains itself. It was our first case of bumblefoot, and we didn't get on it fast enough. I think.

Last summer we had one hen dead in the coop, no warning. It was our first adult death, and I was freaked out and called the extension service, and they said they would not investigate a single death in a large flock (over 100 birds) unless there were other signs of illness in the flock (there were not). There WAS a brick laying next to her ... a brick which had been used to weight down something on top of a cage inside the coop ... a brick I had suggested was a "bad idea" as I imagined it could be knocked off the top of the cage and fall on a bird and ... We now have a policy against precarious bricks in the coop.

When the first batch of birds was in the brooder stage ... 60/70 birds or so ... we lost maybe 2 or 3 chicks before they went out into the coop. Ones that just didn't seem to thrive and didn't make it. We were pretty good about moving chicks to a hospital area if we noticed an issue.

Besides that, we did have some evil white leghorn chicks from that first batch of chicks that attacked anything and everything and they did murder at least one chick. We put those birds in "jail" hoping they'd learn their lesson. They did not. They were repeat offenders. We sent those evil birds away.

Last summer we had one rooster isolated in a separate pen ... he had never had contact with many of the other birds as he was purchased with a batch of roosters we brooded together and then isolated in individual cages when they got older, but of course the humans involved had contact with all birds without practicing bio security. This guy got a bump on his face, near his eye. He did not appear to have any kind of sinus trouble, no discharge, no bad smell, no coughing or sneezing, and after much research it seemed likely the problem was a bacterial infection birds can get from rubbing agains metal wire -- but that's just a guess. We culled him. No other birds have had this issue.

We've lost a couple fresh home-hatched mutt chicks and one duckling that hatched but didn't survive long. It seems that if they hatch at an appropriate time (not too early) and survive until they get up and out of the nest, and start scratching around with momma, they are good to go. Again, this hasn't been many. A couple early hatches, partial hatches, weaklings, and one or two that were probably stepped on. Probably less than 10 total out of probably 15-20 broods ... ?

We lost a handful of ducklings about at about a week old ... our first experience brooding ducklings ... and checked with the feed store we got them from and the other ducklings from the shipment were all thriving ... I think what was happening is they were choking ... they were very good at spilling all their water as they got bigger ... so we adjusted the water situation to assure they had constant access to water deep enough to get their heads in ... and no more duckling deaths. We currently have 25 or so adult ducks that seem healthy.

The percentage of losses here has been very low, I think.

I could be "missing" some health issues due to lack of experience, but deaths do get my attention and there haven't been many of those even though this list looks LONG all typed up!

 

[cbnovick]

Nice Buffs! Their already showing some nice feather quality. It will be great to seem them in adult plumage. Nice leg color, too

Cheers to Roebuck... I am enjoying them! It will be exciting to see these as cocks and hens in 2014.

 

[RiddleMe]

Thank you for the picture and link for the clipper style toe punch.

Now, I've seen the charts and I'm probably more than a little dense, but could someone please explain how to organize this chart?  For instance, punching between these toes means this; and punching between those toes means that. I know its totally up to me what each of these punch positions means but those of you who have used this method for years, could you explain how you organize it?

Say, 2013 hatch gets a punch where?  Do you also punch for a month?  Do you punch for the sire or dam?  I want to use toe punching this next hatch season because those plastic bandettes either come off or the number wears off.  It's a major pain in the back side.  I have a hen who lost her band this past winter or sometime early spring, and now I have no idea who she is! 

Keeping track of birds is a real chore. Someone suggested to me to put a drop of super glue on the bandette so it doesn't come off. I haven't tried it yet because the super glue I had was hard as a rock and haven't been out to get some more. I think it would take two people to do that, one to hold the bird while the other pulled the bandette apart enough to put a drop of glue on. I don't like super glue because it seems it is only good enough for one time use, after that, it hardens. But I suppose it is worth a try. Disadvantage I see other than having to get a helper, is the bandette needs to be the correct size for the adult bird. If you are using them on younger birds and want to size up as they grow, then I guess you would have to cut and ruin the bandette to get it off. On the other hand, if the bandette is glued in place, perhaps a larger band on a smaller bird would stay on. Just thinking out loud here. I have to order some more of those numbered bands so I can keep track of who's who and watch them to decide which to keep, which to cull, and have been delaying because they are expensive and they keep getting them off. I still have some used ones from last year, but it seems they stretch out and don't stay on as well once they have been used. That is where the super glue would come in handy. I have not had too much trouble with the numbers wearing off. Perhaps a water proof sharpie and just write the number on?

I don't know about the leg bands, they might be more porous, but I tried the sharpie on zip ties (low on colors so I "striped" some). It lasted about 4 days before it wore off...maybe if you put some sort of clear protective coat over it...
edited to clarify

 

[thedragonlady]

I don't know about the leg bands, they might be more porous, but I tried the sharpie on zip ties (low on colors so I "striped" some). It lasted about 4 days before it wore off...maybe if you put some sort of clear protective coat over it...
edited to clarify

I raise orchids , and you have to have every plant tagged asto parentage. Sharpies last 6 months tops, and then the writing fades to nothing. Then you have Orphans in the orchid world.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Well, consider raising standard-bred Ameraucanas, if the blue egg factor is important. Some might not consider them "heritage", but if the Delaware qualifies, well then, why not the Ameraucana, too. They're as old as I am, and if my transforming hair color means anything, I'm not hot off the press.

If you wanted another breed, too, I'd suggest one more, but then basta. Do you have a breeding area divided into multiple smaller (4x6 or 4x8) spaces? If not, do you have a coop that could be easily divided into 8-ish smaller pens with exterior runs coming off the sides? Then do you have a space to grow out cockerels and pullets, the two being kept separate? If you have all this, you're cooking on the front burner. IF you had another large coop, you could keep it for pullets to serve as your laying flock. Then at one year old you could select the best to go on as breeders and put the rest to the freezer while filling the pullet house with that years new pullets for a fresh year of laying.

 

[Lacy Blues]

It could also be dominant hens mounting submissive hens. I've never noticed Northern Fowl Mites stripping the back of feathers. Usually one starts to see a general shredding of feathers around the neck. Given, at this point I intervene; thus I don't' really know if over time one starts to encounter baldness. Nevertheless, baldness of the back to me seems odd. I would think it one of the areas lest hospitable to parasitic insects.

Just to be sure, did you mean shredding or shedding? The first time I read this, I thought it said shedding... then I came back to it. I have an extremely typey and beautifully laced pullet who has shed/molted some of her neck feathers. I live nowhere north, but could she still have this northern fowl mite? Are they any harder to detect than regular mites? I'll have to catch her up tomorrow and examine her.

Thank you to maryhysong, cybercat, desertmarcy, finnfur, Riddleme, and Robert Blosl for your suggestions in toe punching and banding etc. I will study each of these and see if I can come up with one I can use and perhaps modify to my specific situation (and remember) so I don't have these bandette issues in the future. Thank you.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Well, consider raising standard-bred Ameraucanas, if the blue egg factor is important.  Some might not consider them "heritage", but if the Delaware qualifies, well then, why not the Ameraucana, too.  They're as old as I am, and if my transforming hair color means anything, I'm not hot off the press.

If you wanted another breed, too,  I'd suggest one more, but then basta.  Do you have a breeding area divided into multiple smaller (4x6 or 4x8) spaces?  If not, do you have a coop that could be easily divided into 8-ish smaller pens with exterior runs coming off the sides?  Then do you have a space to grow out cockerels and pullets, the two being kept separate?  If you have all this, you're cooking on the front burner.  IF you had another large coop, you could keep it for pullets to serve as your laying flock.  Then at one year old you could select the best to go on as breeders and put the rest to the freezer while filling the pullet house with that years new pullets for a fresh year of laying.

Pretty eggs are embarrassingly important to me. But my experience with Easter Egger cockerels has been unpleasant. The ones I've known have been jerky and scrawny. So there isn't even any joy in cooking the meanies. It makes me weary of Ameracaunas. But I do want something that lays blue eggs, and there aren't a lot of choices.

Delawares were suggested to me as a breed worth restoring, and there is someone in the area keen for new enthusiasm. I like that they are good meat birds and good layers. Of course they aren't as old world as other heritage breeds, but I also like that they were the next best thing before the whole Cornish Cross frankenchickens phase started. They appeal on a lot of levels ... except the "older is better" front.

We have a large coop (11' x 70') and a smaller coop (11' x 21'). Both have runs. The plan was once the turkeys have been dispatched we'd set the breeders in the smaller coop. That could happen this fall. It could be subdivided later as needed.

Is it possible to let broodies in the main flock hatch and raise the chicks from the breeder pen? We've had good luck with making mutts this way ... and there is usually a wiling broody around. That way the chicks would be in the main coop from day one, we could leave the pullets there and just pull out the cockerels when they start to cause trouble. The cockerels would need temporary housing while they finish ... that could be arranged. Could I eventually replace the existing roosters who guard the flock with decent Delawares?

I don't have any clue how to run a breeding program (yet), but will be lucky to start with a young trio this fall. It would be a while before I'd need breeding housing for more than the one trio, right?

 

[RedRidge]

Banding chicks... I use different colored strips of vet wrap. It doesn't get tight accidentally and is easy to change.
Adult bands. I use spirals for my production birds and bandettes with numbers for my heritage and rare breeds.
For production birds I want to know their age at a glance so the color of their band corresponds to the international standard for making Queen bees. Easy to remember that way since we raise bees. Those who have a band more than 4 years old get processed each fall.
Heritage and rare work differently since some of those are here and laying and breeding for years and years. But the color system is still the same - never wonder about age that way.