Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[Yellow House Farm]

Nice Buffs! Their already showing some nice feather quality. It will be great to seem them in adult plumage. Nice leg color, too!

 

[thedragonlady]

I agree with you 1000%, Vicki!!! Do you remember the times when us, the dog breeders, were hoping and praying for a miracle which would make the fleas, therefore the tapeworm go away? then came Advantage, and Frontline...and others...couple of drops on the dogs or cats; viola! magic! our prayers were answered!

Since then, if anyone talks to a serious dog breeder who has been at it more than 15 yrs., will not touch either of the products; specially on the dogs which one wants to breed from. After prolonged use( which the manufacturer recommends once a month) of these products, many breeders have experienced low to no sperm count, resorption of fetus, and birth defects. I personally ended up in the emergency vet hosp. with 6 mos. old puppies who started to go into paralysis; one of which died.

I am a dog breeder and know number of breeders of both dog and cat, who will not use Advantage or Frontline or similar products. It is a bit of work to keep them free of pests, but, there are many avenues one can take; may be arduous, but they still work. Some of the chemicals used, ties themselves to the cells which becomes almost impossible to get rid off.

I know and am aware that dogs and chickens are different species; but, never the less, we all are warm blooded living beings similar in many ways. Also, the chemicals can be transmitted through consuming the treated animals.

Lual

Man is an animal with manners. My old vet told me in 1969 to never take Tylenol as it was killing dogs from liver dysfunction. What do you know ? He was so right, and now it is killing humans. Finally, the USDA is putting warning labels on the stuff.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Yellow House,
Something crazy is ALWAYS going on over here!

We have fire ants, scorpions, tarantulas and all kinds of venomous spiders. I have a large dairy goat herd and the does get stung on their udders which causes problems at milking time. After using DE in 3 pastures focusing where they lay including housing, I finally figured out that DE cracked their teats and made them bleed from lying in it. (even small amounts)

The problem went away with sulfur...including my dry bleeding hands which would crack and bleed just from closing them. My herd enjoys eating it in their mineral feeders free choice.

Gas stations using it for drying up spills and sweeping it away.

Ahhh...yes, I would never want to use at as sort of global, environmental treatment. I apply DE directly to the birds: under the wings and around the vent and tail. That's it. It probably amounts to less than 1/4 cup--a big full fingered pinch--per bird. The following day, they won't have a bug on them. To have it loose in the environment would destroy air quality. When I apply, I where gloves (skin-protection), hair-hiding hat (It will strip the oils out of your hair), and a mask. We don't have scorpions et alia so I've got nothing to contribute there. I'm more than sure that it would dry out your doe teats to the point of chapped and bleeding in the event of continuous application.

The best way I know to deal with bugs is preventive: make sure they have access to suitable dust bathing options and keep things clean and dry. The dry is really important.

Personally, I would never--NEVER--use Frontline and the like on my birds, and in the event that I did I would NEVER eat eggs or the flesh of the birds---EVER. Guaranteed that malarkey is going to come out as carcinogenic. I can only tell you what we do, and I concede that DE has potential issues, but we simply do everything possible to avoid poisons. I've been doing this my whole life and I'm married to a veterinary microbiologist; our personal choice is to risk the natural stuff, taking suitable precautions to minimize exposure.

This is, however, for direct to animal, as needed, only quite occasional treatment. I have no idea what I would do to try to rid an entire environment of spiders, scorpions, and the like....

Last line of the product description says "Not recommended for poultry for the production of eggs or meat!".

No way, Jose!

 

[maryhysong]

Thank you for the picture and link for the clipper style toe punch.

Now, I've seen the charts and I'm probably more than a little dense, but could someone please explain how to organize this chart? For instance, punching between these toes means this; and punching between those toes means that. I know its totally up to me what each of these punch positions means but those of you who have used this method for years, could you explain how you organize it?

Say, 2013 hatch gets a punch where? Do you also punch for a month? Do you punch for the sire or dam? I want to use toe punching this next hatch season because those plastic bandettes either come off or the number wears off. It's a major pain in the back side. I have a hen who lost her band this past winter or sometime early spring, and now I have no idea who she is!

I have been using a colored zip tie to denote the hen and the toe punch for the roo, so each of my boys has their own toe punch, then each hen her own colored band. I can repeat the colored bands in each breed (like red welsummer, red BCM, ect) That way I can mix chicks together in the brooder and tell them apart. When they are five or six months old and I've mostly culled down to what I will keep (depending on breed and such, some I am culling again at nine months) then they get colored, numbered bands. Their parentage is recorded in my book with their band number and toe punch.

 

[imtrying]

I agree with you 1000%, Vicki!!! Do you remember the times when us, the dog breeders, were hoping and praying for a miracle which would make the fleas, therefore the tapeworm go away? then came Advantage, and Frontline...and others...couple of drops on the dogs or cats; viola! magic! our prayers were answered!

Since then, if anyone talks to a serious dog breeder who has been at it more than 15 yrs., will not touch either of the products; specially on the dogs which one wants to breed from. After prolonged use( which the manufacturer recommends once a month) of these products, many breeders have experienced low to no sperm count, resorption of fetus, and birth defects. I personally ended up in the emergency vet hosp. with 6 mos. old puppies who started to go into paralysis; one of which died.

I am a dog breeder and know number of breeders of both dog and cat, who will not use Advantage or Frontline or similar products. It is a bit of work to keep them free of pests, but, there are many avenues one can take; may be arduous, but they still work. Some of the chemicals used, ties themselves to the cells which becomes almost impossible to get rid off.

I know and am aware that dogs and chickens are different species; but, never the less, we all are warm blooded living beings similar in many ways. Also, the chemicals can be transmitted through consuming the treated animals.

Lual

so i'm curious what you, and the other breeders, use/do?

 

[cybercat]

I have been using a colored zip tie to denote the hen and the toe punch for the roo, so each of my boys has their own toe punch, then each hen her own colored band. I can repeat the colored bands in each breed (like red welsummer, red BCM, ect) That way I can mix chicks together in the brooder and tell them apart. When they are five or six months old and I've mostly culled down to what I will keep (depending on breed and such, some I am culling again at nine months) then they get colored, numbered bands. Their parentage is recorded in my book with their band number and toe punch.

I know alot of breeders just go with wing bands. It is easy to apply and can be done when young and do not come off. Also the more permenate metal legs bands are used.

 

[desertmarcy]

Thank you for the picture and link for the clipper style toe punch.

Now, I've seen the charts and I'm probably more than a little dense, but could someone please explain how to organize this chart? For instance, punching between these toes means this; and punching between those toes means that. I know its totally up to me what each of these punch positions means but those of you who have used this method for years, could you explain how you organize it?

Say, 2013 hatch gets a punch where? Do you also punch for a month? Do you punch for the sire or dam? I want to use toe punching this next hatch season because those plastic bandettes either come off or the number wears off. It's a major pain in the back side. I have a hen who lost her band this past winter or sometime early spring, and now I have no idea who she is!

Keeping track of birds is a real chore. Someone suggested to me to put a drop of super glue on the bandette so it doesn't come off. I haven't tried it yet because the super glue I had was hard as a rock and haven't been out to get some more. I think it would take two people to do that, one to hold the bird while the other pulled the bandette apart enough to put a drop of glue on. I don't like super glue because it seems it is only good enough for one time use, after that, it hardens. But I suppose it is worth a try. Disadvantage I see other than having to get a helper, is the bandette needs to be the correct size for the adult bird. If you are using them on younger birds and want to size up as they grow, then I guess you would have to cut and ruin the bandette to get it off. On the other hand, if the bandette is glued in place, perhaps a larger band on a smaller bird would stay on. Just thinking out loud here. I have to order some more of those numbered bands so I can keep track of who's who and watch them to decide which to keep, which to cull, and have been delaying because they are expensive and they keep getting them off. I still have some used ones from last year, but it seems they stretch out and don't stay on as well once they have been used. That is where the super glue would come in handy. I have not had too much trouble with the numbers wearing off. Perhaps a water proof sharpie and just write the number on?

 

[finnfur]

Keeping track of birds is a real chore. Someone suggested to me to put a drop of super glue on the bandette so it doesn't come off. I haven't tried it yet because the super glue I had was hard as a rock and haven't been out to get some more. I think it would take two people to do that, one to hold the bird while the other pulled the bandette apart enough to put a drop of glue on. I don't like super glue because it seems it is only good enough for one time use, after that, it hardens. But I suppose it is worth a try. Disadvantage I see other than having to get a helper, is the bandette needs to be the correct size for the adult bird. If you are using them on younger birds and want to size up as they grow, then I guess you would have to cut and ruin the bandette to get it off. On the other hand, if the bandette is glued in place, perhaps a larger band on a smaller bird would stay on. Just thinking out loud here. I have to order some more of those numbered bands so I can keep track of who's who and watch them to decide which to keep, which to cull, and have been delaying because they are expensive and they keep getting them off. I still have some used ones from last year, but it seems they stretch out and don't stay on as well once they have been used. That is where the super glue would come in handy. I have not had too much trouble with the numbers wearing off. Perhaps a water proof sharpie and just write the number on?

I use wing tags / toe punch till they get to almost breeding size then add the wide Bandettes for quick ID. You can expand them a little by sliding down a tapered punch and putting a little heat from hair dryer or heat gun. Not to much just reset the plastic a little.
On the super glue keep in refrigerator before and after opening - extends the shelf life - I have used some thats open a year and still works - keep in sandwich bag in case some spills

 

[Extra Java]

Ahhh...yes, I would never want to use at as sort of global, environmental treatment. I apply DE directly to the birds: under the wings and around the vent and tail. That's it. It probably amounts to less than 1/4 cup--a big full fingered pinch--per bird. The following day, they won't have a bug on them. To have it loose in the environment would destroy air quality. When I apply, I where gloves (skin-protection), hair-hiding hat (It will strip the oils out of your hair), and a mask. We don't have scorpions et alia so I've got nothing to contribute there. I'm more than sure that it would dry out your doe teats to the point of chapped and bleeding in the event of continuous application.

The best way I know to deal with bugs is preventive: make sure they have access to suitable dust bathing options and keep things clean and dry. The dry is really important.

Personally, I would never--NEVER--use Frontline and the like on my birds, and in the event that I did I would NEVER eat eggs or the flesh of the birds---EVER. Guaranteed that malarkey is going to come out as carcinogenic. I can only tell you what we do, and I concede that DE has potential issues, but we simply do everything possible to avoid poisons. I've been doing this my whole life and I'm married to a veterinary microbiologist; our personal choice is to risk the natural stuff, taking suitable precautions to minimize exposure.

This is, however, for direct to animal, as needed, only quite occasional treatment. I have no idea what I would do to try to rid an entire environment of spiders, scorpions, and the like....

No way, Jose!

Thank you Yellow House!

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

I posted this on another thread and someone suggested I post it here. I'm really looking forward to doing my best at this, so am excited about any and all suggestions.

...


So ... I'm thinking of getting some "real" birds of a "real" breed from a "real" breeder so I can reorganize my flock. I'm curious about what I should do to find out if my current birds/set-up is going to be a "safe" place to bring in birds that I'm going to be more serious about. Is there any testing I should do? How should I handle the quarantine? Should I plan to keep the new birds entirely separate from the old birds? Or can I mingle the serious birds with the hatchery birds once the quarantine period is over?

Of course I'd like to use my existing coop/pastures for the more serious birds, and I would probably like to keep my Easter Eggers and a few other "pet" or "interesting" chickens from my existing flock even after the transition (egg variety). Is this an okay plan, or should I plan to just have the one breed?

I have egg customers, so am hoping to keep egg production up until the new birds are laying well. And it will certainly take me time to get the numbers of the new birds up so they can supply all the eggs the customers expect.

Background: What I have now is over 100 hatchery birds, various hatchery breeds, chickens, ducks, and turkeys, the oldest of which were bought in April of 2012. We've added a few more batches of chicks, poults and ducklings since last April, and have also hatched out some mutts here. We've gotten rid of a number of roosters and a few hens, a batch of meat birds, and last year's turkeys.

We did get one older chicken, a rehomed rooster who free-ranges with a few escapee hens around the pasture/coop where we keep the rest of the chickens, but we don't practice bio-security with him. And we got two re-homed adult ducks, same setup. Otherwise, it has all been hatchery chicks bought from the local feed store.

I really don't think we've had any serious health issues with our flock ... very few deaths, predator or otherwise.

So ... how should I prepare for the "serious" birds?

All opinions welcome!