Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

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Perhaps we would all be best to consider the true meaning of Heritage, not necessarily the APA/ALBC interpretation. Heritage means just that - part of our heritage. Meaning something that was around that shaped this country (world) into what it is today. That includes all the old breeds involved in homesteading the Americas, Russia, Asia, and Europe.

I think Heritage will mean different things for different people. For instance, I wouldn't consider the Aracauna/Ameracauna (forgive spelling errors) heritage for me, because they didn't really come into play in my country (USA) until later on, and serve more of an ornamental purpose (both the birds and their eggs) than anything.

For me, a true Heritage bird produces well on its own (meaning at least sometimes broody, and healthy enough to make it to breeding age without problems, and smart enough to raise a clutch of chicks to maturity). I also enjoy birds that will happily forage for food, and can survive the climate in at least some parts of the country. I understand each breed has their downfall, but a good heritage bird would have served our forefathers well in giving nice sized healthy eggs and making flock growth easy by supplementing their food sources with bugs and plants and by breeding well.

Even if the cornishx grocery store birds were an old breed, they wouldn't meet this standard for heritage - they aren't exactly the sharpest tacks, and they have so many health problems (including extreme heat intolerance) that many die before maturity. I also agree that the naked necks aren't heritage, as they are more of an ornamental bird.

I do think that the ornamentals that are heritage from where they come, such as the asian breeds, are still heritage for that country.

To me the idea of a North American heritage bird is one that might have been seen in the early times of the colonies (US and Canada), and then later on a late 1800s/early 1900s farmstead - the kind that a pioneer would have been happy to call her egg producers. These birds came from all over the world, but it was their ability to produce and prosper that made them a part of the American heritage.

Am I making any sense?
 
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If the APA would make a list of heritage and since it is the American Poultry Association I would assume that it would only make since to use breeds that are of American Heritage/ history and also should be breeds that is in the American Standard of Perfection.


Chris

So the APA Heritage list is only going to be for American breeds? Are they going to be mad when I still call my Orloffs and Chentecler heritage breeds?
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The APA has no list of Heritage breeds at this time. The APA has just started discussion about Heritage breeds. All of the heritage breed info you read on here is from other clubs. I would guess that when the APA does come out with a statement about heritage breeds it will include all old dual purpose or possibly single purpose birds that have a place in our history. It should include all Standard bred chickens, Guineas, turkeys and waterfowl that meet the criteria....whatever that ends up being as it relates to the APA. Naked necks could very well be considered heritage, since they have been around forever.

Walt
 
I think heritage Poultry is what the folks had to breed with during the 1920s and 30s. White Face Black Spanish, Silikies, Sebright bantams, Austerlorpers, Black Minoricas, Dorkings, Javas, Orpingtons, Brahmas, Cochins, Plymouth Rocks, New Hampshires, cant believe I wrote that word, Wyandottes ,Rhode Island Reds, Maylays,Leghorns, Hamburgs,Dominuques, Rouen , White Pekings, Muscoveys, Indian Runners, African Geese are just a few breed I can think of off of the top of my head. Many of these birds in the 1880 and up helped form the breeds we have today.

However, when I started this thread 50 pages ago my number one goal was to educate some of the beginners to what the original Heritage birds look like. So many times people will tell me I have Colubian Plymouth Rocks and when they send me a picture I see washed up Colubian looking chickens with non Plymouth Rock type. Frank Reese told me he was asked to come to Poutlry Farms and check out the Plymouth Rock flock and when he got there they where Producition Rocks. They wanted to have him help them breed their Barred Rocks to the level that he has done at his Poultry Ranch in Kansas. He told me this has happen three times in the last ten years.

Look at the pictures of the Silver Laced Wyandottes from the Foleys in Kentucky. Man these are hard core true to breed Heritage Wyandottes. Some of the Dominuques posted are very true to breed just to name a few. We have hit the 50 page mark . This has been a very interesting thread and what great pictures and education we have since it started . bob
 
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Oh, that is great! I hope you have a great hatch!
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I have thought simular things... like why are there hatchery ads in "Poultry Press"!?!?! Aren't "Poultry Press" readers into showing? Aren't people into showing into chickens or poultry in general? And then, aren't people into poultry aware of all the major hatcheries? So wouldn't that be a waste of ad money?

In Mother Earth there are ads for hatcheries too (if I'm not getting my magazines confused... I read alot of them)... and I agree... a ad for APA or ALBC even would benifit the organizations and the birds if they grabbed up new comers right away.

I agree. It would be great to see much more from breeders and clubs. I imagine the hatchery ads are a necessary money maker for publications. If people just knew the differences in hatchery stock and breeder quality stock, I really think hatcheries would experience a loss in business. ALOT of people just simply do not know. How do you go about spreading the word and educating? What can the clubs and breeders do, specifically? I imagine they would be open to suggestions.
 
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When the Orloff were admitted into the APA's Standard of Perfection were they put in as Orloff or Russians... Because from what I have read there is a difference between the Orloff and the Russians and I believe that it was the Russians that was admitted into the ASoP.

The 1875 Standard includes, on page 167, a description of a breed known then a Russians. They had a rose comb w/o a spike, had long pendant wattles & were glossy, greenish black in colour throughout.
Doesn't sound much like the birds I see labeled Orloffs.​
 
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The 1875 Standard includes, on page 167, a description of a breed known then a Russians. They had a rose comb w/o a spike, had long pendant wattles & were glossy, greenish black in colour throughout.
Doesn't sound much like the birds I see labeled Orloffs.

That's what I thought.

So, from what I understand it was the breed Russians that was admitted into the APA's Standard of Perfection and not the "true" Orloff.

From what I read the Orloff was/is a Black colored fowl that has a large frame with a upright stance like the Malay, and a German breeder once said that this breed was originally a game fowl much like the muffed and bearded games.

Chris
 
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I agree. It would be great to see much more from breeders and clubs. I imagine the hatchery ads are a necessary money maker for publications. If people just knew the differences in hatchery stock and breeder quality stock, I really think hatcheries would experience a loss in business. ALOT of people just simply do not know. How do you go about spreading the word and educating? What can the clubs and breeders do, specifically? I imagine they would be open to suggestions.

They need to get with the CSA folks, the people at Mother Earth News, and all the homegrown, buy local type of movement and really start their own PR movement. Show folks why a well bred BR or a Wyandotte, Delaware, New Hampshire, Australop, RIR is to their advantage vs a hatchery bred bird. Educate them on why they don't need to keep Freedom Rangers or CX when you can wait a few extra weeks for a meaty carcass AND have eggs year round.

Lot of club websites are a joke no contact info, no list of breeders, just a paragraph about the history of the breed, a few pictures and a message about the website being under construction and to please check back. Its a joke. Look at the Delaware webpage. The Sussex page. The RIR page is nice, but can you find a page for the New Hampshire or the Australorp? I'm on the hunt for a legitimate DP bird for my families needs. Thats why I'm pushing this so much. I've done the homework looking at breeds and trying to find quality birds and honestly its much easier to go to Murry McMurry or Ideal or Cackle and order birds because the club websites are useless. Id love to get birds from a breeder when we're ready to get serious about this but its like this Mason/ninja like society trying to find quality birds locally. What new person wants to hatch eggs from a breeder when they've never had chickens before? No they need chicks, or a trio to start with and it needs to be local to be cost effective. Can't find any local folks with the breed you want, well time to go to the hatchery websites so I can get what I want. Thats the mentality and where the clubs are really doing themselves a disservice. You can't even find show info to go find breeders in the area. Its like they don't want new people with as difficult as they make the info. Its 2010 use the internet and put up the info for free.

Sorry to go off but its been a frustrating, and I really think a lot could be done to help if the APA and other folks are serious about getting the word out about heritage and quality stock.​
 
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They need to get with the CSA folks, the people at Mother Earth News, and all the homegrown, buy local type of movement and really start their own PR movement. Show folks why a well bred BR or a Wyandotte, Delaware, New Hampshire, Australop, RIR is to their advantage vs a hatchery bred bird. Educate them on why they don't need to keep Freedom Rangers or CX when you can wait a few extra weeks for a meaty carcass AND have eggs year round.

Lot of club websites are a joke no contact info, no list of breeders, just a paragraph about the history of the breed, a few pictures and a message about the website being under construction and to please check back. Its a joke. Look at the Delaware webpage. The Sussex page. The RIR page is nice, but can you find a page for the New Hampshire or the Australorp? I'm on the hunt for a legitimate DP bird for my families needs. Thats why I'm pushing this so much. I've done the homework looking at breeds and trying to find quality birds and honestly its much easier to go to Murry McMurry or Ideal or Cackle and order birds because the club websites are useless. Id love to get birds from a breeder when we're ready to get serious about this but its like this Mason/ninja like society trying to find quality birds locally. What new person wants to hatch eggs from a breeder when they've never had chickens before? No they need chicks, or a trio to start with and it needs to be local to be cost effective. Can't find any local folks with the breed you want, well time to go to the hatchery websites so I can get what I want. Thats the mentality and where the clubs are really doing themselves a disservice. You can't even find show info to go find breeders in the area. Its like they don't want new people with as difficult as they make the info. Its 2010 use the internet and put up the info for free.

Sorry to go off but its been a frustrating, and I really think a lot could be done to help if the APA and other folks are serious about getting the word out about heritage and quality stock.

I know it's frusrating to find good stock....I have been there and done that.....but it can be done. The Poultry Press is a very good source for finding breeders and where and when the shows will be. The trouble with shows is that in some areas of the country they are almost non-existant. That is the case where I live unfortunately. I've had to rely on hatching eggs for the most part to get my start in some very nice birds and it's been slow going with one breed in particular. If I was starting over again I'd go with breeder trios even with the high shipping costs. It would have been cheaper in the long run when I think of how many hatching eggs I've bought that didn't hatch.

Hatcheries serve a purpose in that most people don't care whether their birds are up to the APA standard or not....they just want a source for eggs and wouldn't be interested in paying what the better quality birds would cost them.
 
One of the most important things to me is preservation of the phenotype, per APA standards, so that future generations will have a historically accurate specimen.

I can only hope that future generations are as passionate about these breeds as the folks on this site/thread.
 
Jared - the Delaware site has recently been taken over, and we are trying to get people interested in the club- Marty needs help with the website, and I said I would try to organize something as far as membership, but I am really new at starting something like this. I do know it will involve dues, and we would need to find a chat area or something in order to hold meetings, since there are so few breeders and they are scattered about. Want to help?
 
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