Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[lildinkem]

Just an observation from my limited time breeding chickens. I am very new to breeding chickens. And have done many things that makes folks cringe in who I use for my breeders. However, cause of these breedings I have done. I have noticed how my birds, and I assume all birds, throw their given traits. A given trait from one parent may pop up in it's offspring for maybe let's say 10 eggs in a row, then the same trait, from using the same two parents, will come from the other parent for the next so many eggs in a row. Because of this I hatched every single darn egg my birds lay. Maybe my best quality Black cockerel came out of a hatch in June. Now, I am raising the second generation of merging two different Black Orp lines. And in the case of maybe my best quality Blue Orp cockerel, he may have 25% from one breeder, 25% from another quality breeder, and 50% from a third quality breeder. Which means alot of different genes get thrown around. Guys like Bob have their flocks to a point of purity, he can hatch from a short period of time and be assured he isn't giving away his best bird of a given year. Cause their all GREAT! Not me, I have to hatch every single egg out and then pay the man to raise them up to a point I know what I have. I expect to have to do this for many years till I get my flock as pure as Bob's. It is just something I noticed with my outcross breedings. And for some they may have seen the same thing. For most here who have pure linebred birds, they I envy. I wish I could safely say I am not regreting selling some eggs or chicks.

 

[centrarchid]

Quote:
The variation you are seeing can be good. It indicates you have genetic variation to work with in your selection efforts and likely better odds of weathering a disease outbreak that might take out an entire flock of genetically more homogenous birds.

Your genetic variation decreases odds a given individual will be a perfect reflection of the SOP but from my perspective, I want the flock average to reflect the SOP. Such a situation makes it so your flock represents the breed which in my opinion is better for conservation efforts.

 

[lildinkem]

Quote:
The variation you are seeing can be good. It indicates you have genetic variation to work with in your selection efforts and likely better odds of weathering a disease outbreak that might take out an entire flock of genetically more homogenous birds.

Your genetic variation decreases odds a given individual will be a perfect reflection of the SOP but from my perspective, I want the flock average to reflect the SOP. Such a situation makes it so your flock represents the breed which in my opinion is better for conservation efforts.

When I had my first season offspring, I did cull for the best overall bird. Not realizing till after they had grown out, that the three Black cockerels chosen were all from my Milkey line Black Orp hen. I was not expecting to loose my original cock. Since then, my line has a distinct flavor to it. As you said the vigor is the biggest benefit. I have Black pullets laying 8 days outta 10 during season. Very hardy, not having issues with the hot of summer nor the cold of winter. Size meets or is above the Standard. The plan is to take the two best cocks to the original hens. And on the side to breed this past years offspring to each other hoping for the genetics of each line to re-emerge back together in new versions of my original line. So it takes numbers for me. that is for sure.

 

[halo]

What is everyones opinion on the fertility of Heritage breeds? I know of a lot of breeders of different breeds that either breed their chickens via AI, or have to trim the vent feathers to be able to get fertile eggs. Isnt this contrary to what Heritage breeds should be about? Shouldnt they be strong, vibrant, viable birds that dont need human intervention to breed?

 

[centrarchid]

Quote:
They should be able to at least produce viable eggs under flock breeding conditions and if typical of breed successfully brood eggs and chicks without use of medicated feeds.

 

[Chris09]

Quote:
Halo,
My Red's seem to have a good hatch rate even in the breeding pen that has a 5 year old rooster in it.
I don't AI or trim vents and run about a 80% hatch.

Chris

 

[HallFamilyFarm]

Quote:
Halo,
My Red's seem to have a good hatch rate even in the breeding pen that has a 5 year old rooster in it.
I don't AI or trim vents and run about a 80% hatch.

Chris

I have never trimmed vents or AI and always had good hatches.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Hmm....there are just so many variables. How big is the flock? How many chicks can you hatch at once. What are your breed's productive traits? How much space do you have to work with? Can you rely on other breeders having stock to diversify your flock should you cull too tightly?

Working with Black Orps, I'd probably adhere pretty tightly to the breeding scheme recommended by the ALBC in their educational resources. It's really quite good, especially for dual purpose birds that are in need of breeding up for size, of which most dual-purpose birds are. Depending on how many chicks you're able to hatch, you can cull half your hatch at 8 wks old. Meaning, if you have room to grow out 100 birds comfortably, hatch 150 or even 200. At eight weeks go through for weight and males who are showing combs, etc...that you know you just can't let fly. Cull down to the 100 you know you have room for, and already you know you've done a step forward for rate of growth.

I think that's one of the great things about restricted space, it forces you to make hard decisions on time because you know that if you violate your floor space needs, you're going to end up with scwat. One of the things I like about Dorkings, is that they have certain traits that are quickly visible. Thus I can hatch heavy and keep my eye out for those faults and then remove the offenders. With some breeds, I don't think it's as easy to see; so, you're stuck raising them all up.

When we cull at that stage, we separate out the culls, give them a bit of corn for a week or two and then spatch-cock them. They're delicious and come just in time for the BBQ season.

Cheers!

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Quote:
Greetings! Most heritage breeds have no difficulty in the fertility department. Egg/light breeds are usually a bit more active than dual-purpose, picture type-A versus type-B personalities, but both are fertile. There are certain larger breeds whose loose feathering can be drawn out to such an extant that fluff arounf the vent plays interference. This could be bred against, however. These are, nevertheless, exceptions, and the vast majority of heritage fowl have no concerns on this level.

CHeers!

 

[redman34]

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