Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[3riverschick]

....this is a very worthwhile project. It is much more important than creating some new color in a breed that needs help on the shape of the bird like some of the "projects" I see on this site.
Walt

X2

 

[Arielle]

Would it be of value to build a list of the breeds that are at risk and need more breeders??

Perhaps that list would be too long. I think of the list that the ABLC created, and I value their effort, but the information is a little skewed. It is a jumping off point and enlightening. Perhaps a list of breeds in need would capture a lurkers interest. Just a thought.

I only mention this because as a person new to chickens, it took a long time for me to understand the difference between hatchery lines and heritage lines. Hatchery RIR are not endangered but the heritage RIR need supporters.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

I say that because many people think they have white earlobes like the rest of the crested birds in the Continental Class. I have seen a number of them out here on the west coast with white lobes......probably made using Polish. The Crevs are a very good looking bird when correct. Keep us updated....this is a very worthwhile project. It is much more important than creating some new color in a breed that needs help on the shape of the bird like some of the "projects" I see on this site.
We could lose some of these breeds if someone like yourself doesn't work on them.

Walt

Yeah!!!

 

[3riverschick]

Hi,

You know, we talk a lot about the heritage of these breeds. I've been thinking, sometimes a dangerous activity, LOL, . We know both heredity and environment make them what they are. What about diet? For instance, the Sussex fowl. Historically, it has always been properly raised on a diet of oats. I wonder how many of us with that breed do it today? Perhaps many of the less than impressive results folk see with their Sussex could be alleviated or removed by moving the birds to a more historic diet. All of the historic writers on the breed stress oats in the diet. That was only 80 years ago. Evolution can only proceed so fast. I know of one breeder in England who has gone back to raising and fattening their Sussex in the traditional way. They get rave reviews and have won a special award of merit from the English Government for their birds. Now I know many today want their birds for eggs and not necessarily to eat them. In the old days, folk raised the chicks in a certain way. Then at the proper age, the boys went off to be meat and the girls went into the egg and breeding pens. The point is all the Sussex chicks were raised the same way until that moment of decision of destiny. Nothing says we have to fatten our Sussex for the kill now-a-days. However, I can't help wondering if we raised them to the moment of decision as if they were going to the fattening, if the breed might not be better for it.
Best,
Karen

 

[Robert Blosl]

I use to think the same thing and after a while I came to this conclusion. Its the grade of feed you feed your chickens and I tried three different types on ten different Rhode Island Red groups. Five females Five males. I gave them a home made fighting cock feed to group one, Nutrinia egg laying grower feed, and then FRM Game Bird Pellets. The birds on the Game Bird Pellets had flesh and feather development like I never seen be for, the other two the bird finish or feathers where not as shinny and looked poor in quality com paired to the game bird feed. I told this story to the owner of FRM. He said they had people who tried to raise bob white quail on chicken feed to save money. The birds where so poorly feathered they could hardly fly when hunted. The birds that where feed the game bird feed took of and looked like the birds raised in the wild.

I dont think feed has anything to do with making a chicken look like they did in the 1930 when they where at the height of their game for looking like the standard. Its breeding down that causes chickens to look like they do they revert back to the or gin of how they where made. That is why so many breeds today are so poor if you scored them using the old fashion APA scoring system.

If you have a flock of really good Light Br hams from Mark Perter son in Minnesota and you dont breed them to the standard say in twenty to thirty years just breed them to them selves like a flock mating they will end up looking like the Light Brahmas I got from the famous hatchery in Iowa back when I was a kid. They revert back to how they looked when they came over her in the boat in the 1850s. Rhode Island Reds will revert back to look like Cherry Eggers if you do not breed them correctly.

The best method is of course Free Range if you can then feed the best feed you can afford. Amino Acids in the feed and absorption is I think a area we dont know much about. Just because it says it has 20% protein what kind of protein is it animal or soy beans. There is a difference. I tried using feed two dollars a bag less than FRM and I have a poorer looking bird. So I raise less birds and keep spending the money. Its went up $1.50 a bag last weekend its now $17.50 a bag. However, I may only breed from two of the best females I have per breed cull hard on the chicks and keep within my budget.

Let me tell you a secret the fastest way to go out of business in raising chickens is the feed bill and raising more than you can afford. They will look poor in quality from over crowding and you will just get discussed and go on to another hobby. It happens all the time.

Go Slow , Go Small and Go down the middle of the road he told me. I have to get back into the middle of the road each week and say to myself each week got to down size and get less birds and think smarter. Got a great plan for next year.

Will breed smarter and smaller and have better birds in the long run.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Let me tell you a secret the fastest way to go out of business in raising chickens is the feed bill and raising more than you can afford. They will look poor in quality from over crowding and you will just get discussed and go on to another hobby. It happens all the time.

Go Slow , Go Small and Go down the middle of the road he told me. I have to get back into the middle of the road each week and say to myself each week got to down size and get less birds and think smarter. Got a great plan for next year.

Will breed smarter and smaller and have better birds in the long run.

I really appreciate this. I used to think it was about having large numbers of breeders, but more and more I'm realizing that it's more about using one's breeders very well. in an ever sounder sense of genetic balance. I think of it as going deeper, finding more where you are, it's a rather monastic approach. You say, "Go slow. Go Small, and go down the middle of the road." My uncle used to say to me, "Giuseppe (my Italian name) Chi va piano, va sano e va lontano (He who goes slowly, goes, with health, and goes far)" I think they hint at the same things. Admittedly, I'm not very good at remembering it. Perhaps, over time, I'll get better.

 

[Arielle]

I use to think the same thing and after a while I came to this conclusion. Its the grade of feed you feed your chickens and I tried three different types on ten different Rhode Island Red groups. Five females Five males. I gave them a home made fighting cock feed to group one, Nutrinia egg laying grower feed, and then FRM Game Bird Pellets. The birds on the Game Bird Pellets had flesh and feather development like I never seen be for, the other two the bird finish or feathers where not as shinny and looked poor in quality com paired to the game bird feed. I told this story to the owner of FRM. He said they had people who tried to raise bob white quail on chicken feed to save money. The birds where so poorly feathered they could hardly fly when hunted. The birds that where feed the game bird feed took of and looked like the birds raised in the wild.

I dont think feed has anything to do with making a chicken look like they did in the 1930 when they where at the height of their game for looking like the standard. Its breeding down that causes chickens to look like they do they revert back to the or gin of how they where made. That is why so many breeds today are so poor if you scored them using the old fashion APA scoring system.

If you have a flock of really good Light Br hams from Mark Perter son in Minnesota and you dont breed them to the standard say in twenty to thirty years just breed them to them selves like a flock mating they will end up looking like the Light Brahmas I got from the famous hatchery in Iowa back when I was a kid. They revert back to how they looked when they came over her in the boat in the 1850s. Rhode Island Reds will revert back to look like Cherry Eggers if you do not breed them correctly.

The best method is of course Free Range if you can then feed the best feed you can afford. Amino Acids in the feed and absorption is I think a area we dont know much about. Just because it says it has 20% protein what kind of protein is it animal or soy beans. There is a difference. I tried using feed two dollars a bag less than FRM and I have a poorer looking bird. So I raise less birds and keep spending the money. Its went up $1.50 a bag last weekend its now $17.50 a bag. However, I may only breed from two of the best females I have per breed cull hard on the chicks and keep within my budget.

Let me tell you a secret the fastest way to go out of business in raising chickens is the feed bill and raising more than you can afford. They will look poor in quality from over crowding and you will just get discussed and go on to another hobby. It happens all the time.

Go Slow , Go Small and Go down the middle of the road he told me. I have to get back into the middle of the road each week and say to myself each week got to down size and get less birds and think smarter. Got a great plan for next year.

Will breed smarter and smaller and have better birds in the long run.

Great timing Bob!!!

THe feed bill has been on my mind this week.

I looked at my hatchery birds thinking . . . . freezer camp . . . . . breed higher quality birds . . . . in smaller numbers. ANd feed a higher quality feed, but didn't know which one. I'm sure the feeds I can get are different from your region. Now I now how to test them. Thank you.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Freezer camp indeed. In the past month I've sent approximately 60 spatchcocked cockerels on. Excellent for the BBQ. The feed bill does motivate. I just had left-over BBQ Ancona drumsticks for lunch. Hmm-Hmm good!

 

[WallTenters]

I was advised by some to not feed gamebird starter to our day old and up chicks. Knowing that if I killed them all my business partner had the exact same birds, I went ahead and fed the gamebird starter as a bit of an experiment (very high protein - 28%, with animal protein in there though I'm not sure what percentage of the protein is from animal). I will do that every year from now on. The birds feathered in fast and beautifully. My chicks were much farther along in development than my partner's at the same age they were big and robust and also I never had any coccidiosis problems even though they were brooded in an old horse stall and yes the corner was wet. I am not sure how much of that is just the breeding and how much was the feed, but the only chicks I had all spring with any sign of pasty butt were the ones that I picked up from her place that had already started eating her starter feed. After about four days on the gamebird feed I had zero pasty butt in those chicks as well.

The gamebird feeds have more consistency in quality control, a gamebird may eat out of only one bag of feed its whole life, so if that feed had high quantities of mold or other quality issues, the gamebird growers would know about it and they have raised a stink in the past and made sure the companies are pressured to have better quality in the feeds. I think Bob this is what you were seeing as well.

I tried feeding payback this spring once I switched off the starter because I really like the pellet size - pellets stay together but are small enough for young birds and bantams to handle no problem. I am now in the process of switching off of that. The birds just lack that "oomph" and some are a few ounces low on weight and when you pick them up you're just not impressed with their weight or feather. My business partner with birds from the same pens I went over to visit her and picked up the birds and man what a difference. Also our three year old hens at her place have better feather quality than our pullets at my place. I picked up three bags of the feed she is feeding on my way home and will try that. I don't like the crumble of it at all so will try some birds on that and others on gamebird flight conditioner and see. My only concern is fat content is a bit low at only 2% but hopefully their scratch grain will make up for that.

 

[ashandvine]

I like what was stated about the Sussex and knowing your breeds. I am going into excess here a bit. Its costing us 1$ a day for food presently though and I know it wont get better than that. If we could just sell eggs we would be fine but we aren't... yet. I am going into trying out a few of some new breeds, as said before in a post, and that worries me regarding what Bob has stated, but I know I have to find the right birds for me. I like my Orloffs, and I love these Marans I have. So does the fox, incidentally. I am excited to try new ones and then dare 'to go small." I don't understand not eating your chickens. ??? Yellow House, send me some BBQ!