Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[HallFamilyFarm]

I seen some very pretty Gold Campines at the Arkansas state Fair a few years ago. I was on the aisle when Same Brush (APA President) started judging after lunch. I turned and there Sam was looking at this beautiful Gold Campine male. He said it was a shame he would have to disqualify it. This Campine was nice with his golden hackles, sickles and tail. I have never raised Campines and just never really read the Standard on them. Sam said that Campines are supposed to be "hen feathered" . Sure did not know that. Sam was nice enough to later explain to the FFA member why he DQ the bird and gave him some advice etc. Some judges are just really helpful!

A Chamois Campine has the regular bars, but instead of black bars with the gold bars, they have white bars with gold bars. I will try to take some pictures of them in the morning.

Here are some pictures of my Goldens, I will take more recent pictures in the morning. Until then, enjoy!

 

[HallFamilyFarm]

Would breedin grandson to grandmother be a bad ideal.

If both birds are of good quality you can. You do not want to breed two birds with the same defects. If the hen is of excellent quality and you really want to reproduce what she has, then take her best grandson/son and hatch as many eggs as possible.

This year we took a pair of 6+ year old Cecil Moore Black Orpingtons and split them up. We gave him to the pullets and placed her with a cockerel. The young birds were their offspring. We lost both old birds during the extreme heat. But we have chicks from them both. We also shipped their hatching eggs everywhere so others also now have this old line of Black Orpingtons.

Here is the old male and his offspring. We also introduced the line into our Blue Orpingtons. We are very pleased with the offspring. (Have hatching eggs listed below in my signature).

 

[Robert Blosl]

I seen some very pretty Gold Campines at the Arkansas state Fair a few years ago. I was on the aisle when Same Brush (APA President) started judging after lunch. I turned and there Sam was looking at this beautiful Gold Campine male. He said it was a shame he would have to disqualify it. This Campine was nice with his golden hackles, sickles and tail. I have never raised Campines and just never really read the Standard on them. Sam said that Campines are supposed to be "hen feathered" . Sure did not know that. Sam was nice enough to later explain to the FFA member why he DQ the bird and gave him some advice etc. Some judges are just really helpful!


Quote: Thats a rare old breed pretty pictures of very nice true to breed standard breed chickens. We need more nice pictures. bob

 

[3riverschick]

A Chamois Campine has the regular bars, but instead of black bars with the gold bars, they have white bars with gold bars. I will try to take some pictures of them in the morning.

Here are some pictures of my Goldens, I will take more recent pictures in the morning. Until then, enjoy!

Pittsburgh Steelers chickens!! I love it!
Black and Gold Nation! Zowie!
It's a 'Burgh thing,
Karen in western PA

 

[ashandvine]

Tell Hubby anything with a cord as a gift is meant to strangle him with!

Love it.


Other than the comb DQ I am not seeing the difference between the blacks Mr Jim posted and mine. I can't perceive size accurately in a photo but I don't see a lot of other differences. The sillouette you posted is different, I agree, but I thought he would grow into that. Being that he is only about 4-5 mos. Could you take a minute to point out the visual parts of their differences? Thank you.

No one said anything about the Tompkins line. Does anyone know it?

edited to add that the Campines are beautiful. So many heritage breeds have these big single combs. I like something a bit more winter-friendly.

 

[3riverschick]

Ok, I think I have figured out why the Red Sussex Standard doesn't have black hackles while the British Standard requires them. It seems to be a "life and times" thing. Back in the day, Red Sussex were very popular in England. So were the RIR ( which don't have black hackle). There arose between the two breeds quite the battle royal for popularity which the RIR eventually won. During the popularity "war" , many Red Sussex breeders started breeding their birds without the black hackle. It was enough of a problem that the great veteran breeder Mr. Outram decries it in his 1925 book on Sussex. This would be about the time that Red Sussex were being exhibited and approved by the APA. I need more research to pull the time-line together, but from what I have seen so far I think all the dates will mesh enough to draw this conclusion: that the birds the APA was seeing at the time they were drawing up their breed proposal and approving the Red Sussex were these "no black hackle" Red Sussex caused by this popularity war. The English never changed their original Standard for Red Sussex and after a time , breeding philosophies came back to center again and the Red Sussex continued to be bred in England with the traditional black hackle. While here in the States, evidence of that long ago popularity war remains with our APA Standard calling for "no black hackle".
Now just need to double-check all the dates and time-line.
Best,
Karen Tewart
PR Director
Amer. Sussex Assoc.

 

[catdaddyfro]

Love it.


Other than the comb DQ I am not seeing the difference between the blacks Mr Jim posted and mine. I can't perceive size accurately in a photo but I don't see a lot of other differences. The sillouette you posted is different, I agree, but I thought he would grow into that. Being that he is only about 4-5 mos. Could you take a minute to point out the visual parts of their differences? Thank you.

No one said anything about the Tompkins line. Does anyone know it?

edited to add that the Campines are beautiful. So many heritage breeds have these big single combs. I like something a bit more winter-friendly.

Wyandottes,Dominiques, RIR, RI White-real, rare to find ones= (rose combed) Chantecler=(cushioned combed) Buckeyes,Cornish, Brahma=(pea combed) all good dual purpose heritage types with large meaty carcases to boot. the Brahma and Cornish aren't know exclusively for their egg laying abilities but they are so, so, esp. for the size meat bird they turn into.

Jeff

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

Afternoon all.

After losing 26 birds to wet pox. I "think" all the birds that were gonna die from it have already passed. We should be on the downward spiral of it. Thank goodness! No new birds near my flock unless they've been vaccinated for fowl pox. All there is to it.

I finally have some chicks hatching in my incubator. Bantam white Langshans and Largefowl. Will probably be all blues since I think the only female laying was my splash female. The male is a black.

Just glad I can see a bit of light at the end of the tunnel.


Anyone else hatching anything at this point?

 

[campinechickens]

Good morning!

Took some nice pictures of my birds this morning, here are the Chamois. This rooster is not my best one, I will try to get pictures of my best one tomorrow. Enjoy!

 

[3riverschick]

Timeline of Red Sussex "Black hackle or not"


Red Sussex were seriously developed circa 1903 and weren't accepted by the British Poultry Club till 1913.
=================================
I can't tell about these old pictures the hackles, but I do notice that the cockerel won both in London (1915), then in Chicago (1915) and then also here at Madison Sq. Gardens (1916):
http://books.google.com/books?id=yQ...=0CFEQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q="red sussex"&f=false
===============================
Looking back at my 1926 Outram "The Sussex Fowl....", he states, "...just an aside here... most all libraries and databases quote this as a 1926 edition. However, I found a mention in a Fall 1925 issue of a major poultry magazine where they commented the book had just been published. So it is a 1925 publishing date (tho a publishing date is not stated in the volume itself).
Quoting Chapter 5 " The Red... It's Value as a Commercial Bird".
"The colour of the cock is very rich level mahogany red, clear of all signs of ticking or "pepperiness." The neck hackle has, as is characteristic with all Sussex, a black stripe. This point, I am sorry to say, is not popular with some Red breeders and in many cases the birds are exhibited at shows with a complete absence of this stripe. The tail is a beetle green black, with the coverts of the same colour, the flights having some black in them, but this should only be seen when the wing is outspread.
The colouring of the hen is exactly the same as that of the cock, the essential points being the slate blue under-colour and the deep red top; without the former it is very rare that the latter will be of any quality."
===================================
The Sussex fowl (1920)
Author: Sharpe, S. C
http://archive.org/details/cu31924003091398
Pages 62 thru 64.
As will be Seen by my coloured plate, the Reds of
to-day have the deep red body colour, and this is
correct. In the early days it waS the exception rather
than the rule to see this nice deep "Sussex Cattle"
Red, but I am glad to see to-day most of the pens shows
this beautiful colour.
There is to-day a red plumaged bird in the country
which is very popular (Karen: the RIR), and when
put up and compared with the Red Sussex- there is no
comparison. The Red Sussex will beat it "hollow"
on several points, and I am thinking that had the Red
Sussex been given the "booming" that the other breed
mentioned has had, to-day our "Red" would have
been the favourite breed. Take, for instance, one
point of the Red Sussex as a fine class table bird, and,
after all, those are really the points that mostly "tell."
The Reds have a nice white leg, and the flesh is of a
beautiful white, fine in grain and texture. Now turn
to the other breed, and you get a "yellow" leg and con-
sequently yellow flesh, and yet that bird is bred more
extensively to-day, just because our "Red" has not
been "pushed" so much. However, my opinion is
that the best will eventually come into its own, and I
believe there is a big future for the Red Sussex in this
and other countries, and when the "time" comes, there
will not be enough to go round." The Reds lay a
large egg, and is nearly always well over 2 ozs., They
lay well in the early part of the season, and it has always
been shown that they are good winter layers by the num-
ber of early chicks which could be bred from them by
the "chicken farmers."
Neck Hackle.
How few we see in the show pen with a good
hackle ; in fact, we often cannot see a hackle at all, yet
the "Standard" says: "Neck hackle, rich dark red
striped with black," and this in both the cock and hen.
I am of opinion that the hackle has been too lightly-
gone over by the Judges in the past ; they seem to have
"left it" out; forgotten it — and the result has been
that the breeders have not thought it worth while to
bother about trying to breed for a striped neck hackle.
Now, I say if the standard of excellence puts down the
"line" to breed a neck hackle then this should be done
— or leave it out of the standard of excellence — it must,
or should be, one or the other. The few birds
which have been bred with a neck hackle certainly
have a very handsome appearance, and I do think that
this should be given all the possible encouragement.
The coloured plate of the Red I am showing here will
give some idea of the improvement in a Red when the
neck hackle is well defined.
(skip section unrelated to "hackle" on page 63
and go to Page 64 of "The Sussex Fowl.")
During the last few years more Reds have been
exported, and chiefly to the States, although this is
not their favourite breed. I should like to see many
more Red Sussex bred and the variety made far more
popular, for it is a handsome bird, in addition to
being an excellent table fowl. I can safely recommend
it to any and all who want a high-class breed of
poultry. (end quote)
==========================
Red Sussex were seriously developed circa 1903 and weren't accepted by the British Poultry Club till 1913.
We know there was a problem breeding black in the hackle at least between 1920 and 1926.
It takes several years for a color problem to arise, what with mating ; raising the chicks,
then scattering them around the fancy. May we conclude then that the hackle issue in Reds
existed at least from 1917? We do see the Red (w/o black hackle??, tough to tell in the pic)
in the URL above winning on both sides of the pond in 1915/1916.
The 2010 APA SOP states on Page 103 that the Red Sussex was admitted in 1914.
So what was going on in color breeding of the Red Sussex between 1903 and 1914?
Outram states on Page 18 of his 1925 "Sussex book" that a 'Utility Red Sussex Club' was formed in 1923.
Maybe the historian at the british 'Sussex Poultry Club' or 'British Poutry Club' can help with info there.
Could this lack of black hackle breeding in the early years of the Red Sussex have to do with
the fancy sorting out the Brown Sussex from the Red Sussex?
To answer that we need to look in on the history of the Brown Sussex. We know that
Outram beleived the fancy didn't need both the Red and the Brown Sussex. He thought birds
crossing both lines in color would suffice. Whether the tussle to separate the two colors
into two varieties had anything to do with the lack of black hackle in the Reds at the time of
APA acceptance , I don't know right now.
-----------------------------------
Once again we come back to the popularity struggle between "the other red bird {RIR}" and the
Red Sussex as we read on Page 32 of Outram's "Sussex..." book, quote, " I think the reason that
the Red Sussex has not been more prominent is because the Rhode Island Red has been so much
in the past confused with it. I have times out of number overheard people say ( when looking
over some Sussex farm gate at a flock of Red Sussex), "Oh! look at those fine Rhode Islands."
The publicity propaganda of the Rhode Island Red Club has been so thorough that nearly every
red fowl has been taken for a Rhode; now that the Red Sussex has two clubs to look after its
interests the public will soon realize that there is another red fowl "on the beach". (end quote)
-------------------
It seems to me that because of the rise of the Brown Sussex and the struggle for popularity with
the RIR, perhaps it just didn't behoove many breeders to deliniate the Red Sussex with a black hackle
...until the Club insisted upon it?
Best Regards,
Karen Tewart
PR Director
Amer. Sussex Assoc.