Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread
- Thread starter Robert Blosl
- Start date
- Status
A side sprig does not mean the bird is a cross bred bird, it shows up in pure bred birds. It is genetic and if you don't cull for it, it will show up more often.
Tuesday I was on the Chicken Whisperer's radio show. They broadcast it from the Heritage Expo here in Santa Rosa, CA. http://www.blogtalkradio.com/backyardpoultry/2012/09/11/backyard-poultry-with-the-chicken-whisperer I''m about 30 minutes into the program.
Lets try it this way. It is the Sept 11 broadcast.
Walt
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Quote: Always see these birds on my area craigslist. If I had more room I would certainly get some. For now going to stick with my LF faverolles. We will see how they fair through this winter. Hopefully it won't be to bad. Getting ready by winterizing the coop and going to start feeding corn when the snow hits the ground.
Since corn will not make your bird warmer if you want to "supplement" with something in the winter add a little extra protein.
Chickens eat to fill there caloric intake and by feeding corn they will eat less feed because the fill caloric need sooner.
Also poultry tend to be "hotter" when fed or over fed a high protein feed and that is why your big egg producer will drop the amount of protein they are feeding in the hottest summer months. (by dropping the amount of protein intake they lessen the chances of Heat Stress in there birds)
Chris
Oh good call Chris. I guess I can feed them some black oil sunflower seeds. Also may end up feeding some other added thing for protein. What do you recommend? I have just been feeding 17% laying feed to my layers and 20% grower to the growing pullets and cockerels. Maybe I should switch to 20% flock raiser.Since corn will not make your bird warmer if you want to "supplement" with something in the winter add a little extra protein.
Chickens eat to fill there caloric intake and by feeding corn they will eat less feed because the fill caloric need sooner.
Also poultry tend to be "hotter" when fed or over fed a high protein feed and that is why your big egg producer will drop the amount of protein they are feeding in the hottest summer months. (by dropping the amount of protein intake they lessen the chances of Heat Stress in there birds)
Chris
Henry
- May 19, 2009
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This is for Walt,
Hi Walt,
This is the timeline I came up with last night. I can find further detail, if you like.
Timeline of Red Sussex "Black hackle or not"
Red Sussex were seriously developed circa 1903 and weren't accepted by the British Poultry Club till 1913.
=================================
I can't tell about these old pictures the hackles, but I do notice that the cockerel won both in London (1915), then in Chicago (1915) and then also here at Madison Sq. Gardens (1916):
http://books.google.com/books?id=yQ...=0CFEQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q="red sussex"&f=false
===============================
Looking back at my 1926 Outram "The Sussex Fowl....", he states, "...just an aside here... most all libraries and databases quote this as a 1926 edition. However, I found a mention in a Fall 1925 issue of a major poultry magazine where they commented the book had just been published. So it is a 1925 publishing date (tho a publishing date is not stated in the volume itself).
Quoting Chapter 5 " The Red... It's Value as a Commercial Bird".
"The colour of the cock is very rich level mahogany red, clear of all signs of ticking or "pepperiness." The neck hackle has, as is characteristic with all Sussex, a black stripe. This point, I am sorry to say, is not popular with some Red breeders and in many cases the birds are exhibited at shows with a complete absence of this stripe. The tail is a beetle green black, with the coverts of the same colour, the flights having some black in them, but this should only be seen when the wing is outspread.
The colouring of the hen is exactly the same as that of the cock, the essential points being the slate blue under-colour and the deep red top; without the former it is very rare that the latter will be of any quality."
===================================
The Sussex fowl (1920)
Author: Sharpe, S. C
http://archive.org/details/cu31924003091398
Pages 62 thru 64.
As will be Seen by my coloured plate, the Reds of
to-day have the deep red body colour, and this is
correct. In the early days it waS the exception rather
than the rule to see this nice deep "Sussex Cattle"
Red, but I am glad to see to-day most of the pens shows
this beautiful colour.
There is to-day a red plumaged bird in the country
which is very popular (Karen: the RIR), and when
put up and compared with the Red Sussex- there is no
comparison. The Red Sussex will beat it "hollow"
on several points, and I am thinking that had the Red
Sussex been given the "booming" that the other breed
mentioned has had, to-day our "Red" would have
been the favourite breed. Take, for instance, one
point of the Red Sussex as a fine class table bird, and,
after all, those are really the points that mostly "tell."
The Reds have a nice white leg, and the flesh is of a
beautiful white, fine in grain and texture. Now turn
to the other breed, and you get a "yellow" leg and con-
sequently yellow flesh, and yet that bird is bred more
extensively to-day, just because our "Red" has not
been "pushed" so much. However, my opinion is
that the best will eventually come into its own, and I
believe there is a big future for the Red Sussex in this
and other countries, and when the "time" comes, there
will not be enough to go round." The Reds lay a
large egg, and is nearly always well over 2 ozs., They
lay well in the early part of the season, and it has always
been shown that they are good winter layers by the num-
ber of early chicks which could be bred from them by
the "chicken farmers."
Neck Hackle.
How few we see in the show pen with a good
hackle ; in fact, we often cannot see a hackle at all, yet
the "Standard" says: "Neck hackle, rich dark red
striped with black," and this in both the cock and hen.
I am of opinion that the hackle has been too lightly-
gone over by the Judges in the past ; they seem to have
"left it" out; forgotten it — and the result has been
that the breeders have not thought it worth while to
bother about trying to breed for a striped neck hackle.
Now, I say if the standard of excellence puts down the
"line" to breed a neck hackle then this should be done
— or leave it out of the standard of excellence — it must,
or should be, one or the other. The few birds
which have been bred with a neck hackle certainly
have a very handsome appearance, and I do think that
this should be given all the possible encouragement.
The coloured plate of the Red I am showing here will
give some idea of the improvement in a Red when the
neck hackle is well defined.
(skip section unrelated to "hackle" on page 63
and go to Page 64 of "The Sussex Fowl.")
During the last few years more Reds have been
exported, and chiefly to the States, although this is
not their favourite breed. I should like to see many
more Red Sussex bred and the variety made far more
popular, for it is a handsome bird, in addition to
being an excellent table fowl. I can safely recommend
it to any and all who want a high-class breed of
poultry. (end quote)
==========================
Red Sussex were seriously developed circa 1903 and weren't accepted by the British Poultry Club till 1913.
We know there was a problem breeding black in the hackle at least between 1920 and 1926.
It takes several years for a color problem to arise, what with mating ; raising the chicks,
then scattering them around the fancy. May we conclude then that the hackle issue in Reds
existed at least from 1917? We do see the Red (w/o black hackle??, tough to tell in the pic)
in the URL above winning on both sides of the pond in 1915/1916.
The 2010 APA SOP states on Page 103 that the Red Sussex was admitted in 1914.
So what was going on in color breeding of the Red Sussex between 1903 and 1914?
Outram states on Page 18 of his 1925 "Sussex book" that a 'Utility Red Sussex Club' was formed in 1923.
Maybe the historian at the british 'Sussex Poultry Club' or 'British Poutry Club' can help with info there.
Could this lack of black hackle breeding in the early years of the Red Sussex have to do with
the fancy sorting out the Brown Sussex from the Red Sussex?
To answer that we need to look in on the history of the Brown Sussex. We know that
Outram beleived the fancy didn't need both the Red and the Brown Sussex. He thought birds
crossing both lines in color would suffice. Whether the tussle to separate the two colors
into two varieties had anything to do with the lack of black hackle in the Reds at the time of
APA acceptance , I don't know right now.
=================================
Once again we come back to the popularity struggle between "the other red bird {RIR}" and the
Red Sussex as we read on Page 32 of Outram's "Sussex..." book, quote, " I think the reason that
the Red Sussex has not been more prominent is because the Rhode Island Red has been so much
in the past confused with it. I have times out of number overheard people say ( when looking
over some Sussex farm gate at a flock of Red Sussex), "Oh! look at those fine Rhode Islands."
The publicity propaganda of the Rhode Island Red Club has been so thorough that nearly every
red fowl has been taken for a Rhode; now that the Red Sussex has two clubs to look after its
interests the public will soon realize that there is another red fowl "on the beach". (end quote)
===============================
It seems to me that because of the rise of the Brown Sussex and the struggle for popularity with
the RIR, perhaps it just didn't behoove many breeders to deliniate the Red Sussex with a black hackle
...until the Club insisted upon it?
Best Regards,
Karen Tewart
PR Director
Amer. Sussex Assoc.
=========================================================================
We were discussing earlier on this forum about changing the APA SOP to include Black Hackle. I can see 4 real good reasons to do this which will improve things for 2 breeds.
1. The APA SOP was created during a time of abberation amongst the Red Sussex fancy when breeders were deliberately not breeding to the british Red Sussex Standard as it was historically written. During this time was when the APA folk were seeing the birds w/o black hackles which they evaluated when they made up the APA Standard.
2. There is no illustration for the Red Sussex in the SOP so we would not be visually confusing the fancy/public if we put in an illustration with black hackle.
3. This would be good for RIR as well as Red Sussex. If we add in the black hackle, and the Red Sussex continues to resurge in popularity, this will help eliminate folks crossing RIR and Red Sussex for whatever reason. "The Genetics Of Chicken Colours- The Basics", Page 205; "Almost all Reds are derived from the Rhode Island Red, the Red Sussex being a prime example.".
4. Red Sussex have been brought over from Britian to help revitalize the Red Sussex gene pool. These bird do have the black hackle and are spreading it around the North American gene pool.
We know this hackle is caused, at least, by the Hackle Black gene. It is going to be harder to eliminate than it was for it to permeate the North American gene pool. This will necessitate using an even smaller amount of an already critically small gene pool. And/or crossing to Speckled Sussex and then breeding out the Hackle Black, Mottling and white genes. That's quite an order for small poultry breeders. Breeders are going to have a hard time eliminating the black hackle when all of one's birds are manifesting it.
Walt, would really like to read your thoughts on this.
Best Regards,
Karen Tewart
Hi Walt,
This is the timeline I came up with last night. I can find further detail, if you like.
Timeline of Red Sussex "Black hackle or not"
Red Sussex were seriously developed circa 1903 and weren't accepted by the British Poultry Club till 1913.
=================================
I can't tell about these old pictures the hackles, but I do notice that the cockerel won both in London (1915), then in Chicago (1915) and then also here at Madison Sq. Gardens (1916):
http://books.google.com/books?id=yQ...=0CFEQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q="red sussex"&f=false
===============================
Looking back at my 1926 Outram "The Sussex Fowl....", he states, "...just an aside here... most all libraries and databases quote this as a 1926 edition. However, I found a mention in a Fall 1925 issue of a major poultry magazine where they commented the book had just been published. So it is a 1925 publishing date (tho a publishing date is not stated in the volume itself).
Quoting Chapter 5 " The Red... It's Value as a Commercial Bird".
"The colour of the cock is very rich level mahogany red, clear of all signs of ticking or "pepperiness." The neck hackle has, as is characteristic with all Sussex, a black stripe. This point, I am sorry to say, is not popular with some Red breeders and in many cases the birds are exhibited at shows with a complete absence of this stripe. The tail is a beetle green black, with the coverts of the same colour, the flights having some black in them, but this should only be seen when the wing is outspread.
The colouring of the hen is exactly the same as that of the cock, the essential points being the slate blue under-colour and the deep red top; without the former it is very rare that the latter will be of any quality."
===================================
The Sussex fowl (1920)
Author: Sharpe, S. C
http://archive.org/details/cu31924003091398
Pages 62 thru 64.
As will be Seen by my coloured plate, the Reds of
to-day have the deep red body colour, and this is
correct. In the early days it waS the exception rather
than the rule to see this nice deep "Sussex Cattle"
Red, but I am glad to see to-day most of the pens shows
this beautiful colour.
There is to-day a red plumaged bird in the country
which is very popular (Karen: the RIR), and when
put up and compared with the Red Sussex- there is no
comparison. The Red Sussex will beat it "hollow"
on several points, and I am thinking that had the Red
Sussex been given the "booming" that the other breed
mentioned has had, to-day our "Red" would have
been the favourite breed. Take, for instance, one
point of the Red Sussex as a fine class table bird, and,
after all, those are really the points that mostly "tell."
The Reds have a nice white leg, and the flesh is of a
beautiful white, fine in grain and texture. Now turn
to the other breed, and you get a "yellow" leg and con-
sequently yellow flesh, and yet that bird is bred more
extensively to-day, just because our "Red" has not
been "pushed" so much. However, my opinion is
that the best will eventually come into its own, and I
believe there is a big future for the Red Sussex in this
and other countries, and when the "time" comes, there
will not be enough to go round." The Reds lay a
large egg, and is nearly always well over 2 ozs., They
lay well in the early part of the season, and it has always
been shown that they are good winter layers by the num-
ber of early chicks which could be bred from them by
the "chicken farmers."
Neck Hackle.
How few we see in the show pen with a good
hackle ; in fact, we often cannot see a hackle at all, yet
the "Standard" says: "Neck hackle, rich dark red
striped with black," and this in both the cock and hen.
I am of opinion that the hackle has been too lightly-
gone over by the Judges in the past ; they seem to have
"left it" out; forgotten it — and the result has been
that the breeders have not thought it worth while to
bother about trying to breed for a striped neck hackle.
Now, I say if the standard of excellence puts down the
"line" to breed a neck hackle then this should be done
— or leave it out of the standard of excellence — it must,
or should be, one or the other. The few birds
which have been bred with a neck hackle certainly
have a very handsome appearance, and I do think that
this should be given all the possible encouragement.
The coloured plate of the Red I am showing here will
give some idea of the improvement in a Red when the
neck hackle is well defined.
(skip section unrelated to "hackle" on page 63
and go to Page 64 of "The Sussex Fowl.")
During the last few years more Reds have been
exported, and chiefly to the States, although this is
not their favourite breed. I should like to see many
more Red Sussex bred and the variety made far more
popular, for it is a handsome bird, in addition to
being an excellent table fowl. I can safely recommend
it to any and all who want a high-class breed of
poultry. (end quote)
==========================
Red Sussex were seriously developed circa 1903 and weren't accepted by the British Poultry Club till 1913.
We know there was a problem breeding black in the hackle at least between 1920 and 1926.
It takes several years for a color problem to arise, what with mating ; raising the chicks,
then scattering them around the fancy. May we conclude then that the hackle issue in Reds
existed at least from 1917? We do see the Red (w/o black hackle??, tough to tell in the pic)
in the URL above winning on both sides of the pond in 1915/1916.
The 2010 APA SOP states on Page 103 that the Red Sussex was admitted in 1914.
So what was going on in color breeding of the Red Sussex between 1903 and 1914?
Outram states on Page 18 of his 1925 "Sussex book" that a 'Utility Red Sussex Club' was formed in 1923.
Maybe the historian at the british 'Sussex Poultry Club' or 'British Poutry Club' can help with info there.
Could this lack of black hackle breeding in the early years of the Red Sussex have to do with
the fancy sorting out the Brown Sussex from the Red Sussex?
To answer that we need to look in on the history of the Brown Sussex. We know that
Outram beleived the fancy didn't need both the Red and the Brown Sussex. He thought birds
crossing both lines in color would suffice. Whether the tussle to separate the two colors
into two varieties had anything to do with the lack of black hackle in the Reds at the time of
APA acceptance , I don't know right now.
=================================
Once again we come back to the popularity struggle between "the other red bird {RIR}" and the
Red Sussex as we read on Page 32 of Outram's "Sussex..." book, quote, " I think the reason that
the Red Sussex has not been more prominent is because the Rhode Island Red has been so much
in the past confused with it. I have times out of number overheard people say ( when looking
over some Sussex farm gate at a flock of Red Sussex), "Oh! look at those fine Rhode Islands."
The publicity propaganda of the Rhode Island Red Club has been so thorough that nearly every
red fowl has been taken for a Rhode; now that the Red Sussex has two clubs to look after its
interests the public will soon realize that there is another red fowl "on the beach". (end quote)
===============================
It seems to me that because of the rise of the Brown Sussex and the struggle for popularity with
the RIR, perhaps it just didn't behoove many breeders to deliniate the Red Sussex with a black hackle
...until the Club insisted upon it?
Best Regards,
Karen Tewart
PR Director
Amer. Sussex Assoc.
=========================================================================
We were discussing earlier on this forum about changing the APA SOP to include Black Hackle. I can see 4 real good reasons to do this which will improve things for 2 breeds.
1. The APA SOP was created during a time of abberation amongst the Red Sussex fancy when breeders were deliberately not breeding to the british Red Sussex Standard as it was historically written. During this time was when the APA folk were seeing the birds w/o black hackles which they evaluated when they made up the APA Standard.
2. There is no illustration for the Red Sussex in the SOP so we would not be visually confusing the fancy/public if we put in an illustration with black hackle.
3. This would be good for RIR as well as Red Sussex. If we add in the black hackle, and the Red Sussex continues to resurge in popularity, this will help eliminate folks crossing RIR and Red Sussex for whatever reason. "The Genetics Of Chicken Colours- The Basics", Page 205; "Almost all Reds are derived from the Rhode Island Red, the Red Sussex being a prime example.".
4. Red Sussex have been brought over from Britian to help revitalize the Red Sussex gene pool. These bird do have the black hackle and are spreading it around the North American gene pool.
We know this hackle is caused, at least, by the Hackle Black gene. It is going to be harder to eliminate than it was for it to permeate the North American gene pool. This will necessitate using an even smaller amount of an already critically small gene pool. And/or crossing to Speckled Sussex and then breeding out the Hackle Black, Mottling and white genes. That's quite an order for small poultry breeders. Breeders are going to have a hard time eliminating the black hackle when all of one's birds are manifesting it.
Walt, would really like to read your thoughts on this.
Best Regards,
Karen Tewart
Last edited:
If you don't want a "fluffy" bird, I wouldn't recommend the Wyandottes or Brahmas. Standard bred lines are very loose feathered.
If you're feeding a 17% layer you could switch to Flock raiser but I would just supplement with a protein pellet or even a floating fish pellet.
I use AquaMax, it's a 41% protein pellet that also has animal protein.
You could also use Catfish 32 it also has animal protein in it but it is a 32% protein feed.
Both feeds are a Extruded Pellet that looks like this.
Chris
- Oct 13, 2011
- 112
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Just curious if those fish feeds make the eggs and meat taste well...fishy?
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