Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[buffalogal]

Hit submit too soon.

Now, I may have the words "strain and "line" backwards as to how you are using them, but my point is that to claim you have either requires a little bit more than simply tossing a "roo" in with a hen and hatching off a chick. To me, creating a line or strain requires breeding with some foresight and planning, and, while you might say you have "started" a line with your very first chick, that does not mean that first chick is a "line"or "strain" or in any meaningful way different (better or worse) than the original birds 21 days before. Maybe when you are selecting the breeders from "that* chick's offspring, you're on your way to creating a line.(depends on how well one is able to breed and cull with a goal in mind)

Like I said, there are people who have been breeding purebred poultry for years, even decades, and they do not now, nor will they ever have anything that is recognizable as being uniquely "theirs". Their flock is no different from any other random bred group of birds of the same breed.

(and respectfully no, IMHO, it is not at all like a random group of guppies breeding in a fish tank)

 

[Chris09]

Really? You think producing even one chick automatically establishes a "line"?

Well that one bird should not carry the line name of whom ever you got the parent stock from.

I think if you go back a read what has been posted you will find that others agree and have posted about if not the same thing I have.


Chris

 

[fowlman01]

Hit submit too soon.

Now, I may have the words "strain and "line" backwards as to how you are using them, but my point is that to claim you have either requires a little bit more than simply tossing a "roo" in with a hen and hatching off a chick. To me, creating a line or strain requires breeding with some foresight and planning, and, while you might say you have "started" a line with your very first chick, that does not mean that first chick is a "line"or "strain" or in any meaningful way different (better or worse) than the original birds 21 days before. Maybe when you are selecting the breeders from "that* chick's offspring, you're on your way to creating a line.(depends on how well one is able to breed and cull with a goal in mind)

Like I said, there are people who have been breeding purebred poultry for years, even decades, and they do not now, nor will they ever have anything that is recognizable as being uniquely "theirs". Their flock is no different from any other random bred group of birds of the same breed.

(and respectfully no, IMHO, it is not at all like a random group of guppies breeding in a fish tank)

That is not true. I can recognize distinct differences in many good breeders flocks that are specific to only them. As I mentioned earlier, many have clearly distinct traits other lines/strains don't have, yet they still meet the APA SOP.

Walt

 

[NotAFarm]

According to the SOP Glossary of Technical Terms....

"Strain - Fowl of any breed or variety that have been bred as a closed population for a number of years and which reproduce uniform characteristics with marked regularity."

There is no definition listed for "line".

 

[BarnGoddess01]

Quote:
The fellow presenting our session yesterday would also agree with Walt. He DEFINITELY knew his birds.

 

[CluckyCharms]

Lineage isn't about chickens...and yes, my stupid little guppies have lineages. A lineage is nothing more and nothing less than "descent from a common progenitor" defined. ....anything can have a lineage if it procreates, even guppies.

With regard to heritage breeds - (trying to get back on topic, lol) - Silkies confuse me. Some say they are large fowl and some say they are bantams, and some say that those who call them bantams are mistaken, and that they are large fowl and just small in stature. So which is it? Thanks!

 

[BarnGoddess01]

Lineage isn't about chickens...and yes, my stupid little guppies have lineages. A lineage is nothing more and nothing less than "descent from a common progenitor" defined. ....anything can have a lineage if it procreates, even guppies.

With regard to heritage breeds - (trying to get back on topic, lol) - Silkies confuse me. Some say they are large fowl and some say they are bantams, and some say that those who call them bantams are mistaken, and that they are large fowl and just small in stature. So which is it? Thanks!

Silkies in North America are bantams. Big ones, perhaps, but bantams, nevertheless. (There are large fowl and bantam Silkies in Europe.)

I think we get ourselves into BIG trouble when we fuss too much on semantics. Lines, strains, .... We need to focus on trying to determine intent and not picking nits.

 

[capayvalleychick]

I have one major fault in my males (brassiness in the hackles, shoulders and saddles). With the help of an expert in poultry genetics we feel we have identified the problem as being caused by a lacking "inhibitor" of Aph. So, I am having to incorporate yet another line into my, utilizing a quality line of Barred Rocks in order to introduce the "inhibitor" genetics that I need to clean up my males. Hopefully, after 2 generations of breeding the Barred Rock line (will either be a Stukel line bird or a Wheeler line bird) into my Columbians, I am hopeful that the brassiness will be removed.

Do all your males have the brassiness?

I'm hoping some of the master breeder's will comment on what you are planning to do.

I'm curious because I have brassiness in my male Delaware.

 

[CluckyCharms]

Silkies in North America are bantams. Big ones, perhaps, but bantams, nevertheless. (There are large fowl and bantam Silkies in Europe.)

I think we get ourselves into BIG trouble when we fuss too much on semantics. Lines, strains, .... We need to focus on trying to determine intent and not picking nits.

Thanks! That's what I was really curious about! I read a few places online that discussed both large fowl and bantam Silkies and that's when I started questioning what the heck they were. lol Since they were accepted in 1874 I thought they might be a heritage LF breed but I guess not.. =( Thank you for clarifying it though, I appreciate it!

 

[buffalogal]

That is not true. I can recognize distinct differences in many good breeders flocks that are specific to only them. As I mentioned earlier, many have clearly distinct traits other lines/strains don't have, yet they still meet the APA SOP.

Walt

But Walt, that is my point. A *good* breeder isn't randomly breeding anything. They are carefully selecting what male to put with the female, and yes, you can look at a good breeder's stock or carefully bred birds derived from a good breeder's stock and see some trait that will make you think "Uh huh. Great topline. I bet that's out of Mr X's line." IMHO, random breeding will never create a "line".