Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

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Contacts ARE a big part of weather you will get good birds from name breeders or not. Every top breeder is approached by many newbies who want to buy "Top Birds". You have to pay your dues before a good breeder will let you have his best stock for sale. Why should anyone waste the results of years of breeding on someone who is liable to either condition and breed those birds wrong, or just run out of enthusiasum in a year or two?

My best advice to a newbie is to find a mentor in your ONE , I repeat ONE, chosen breed, and breed it, and learn for 2 or 3 years, while listening to your mentor all the while. If after 2 or 3 years, you have not botched up the rearing of chicks, and conditioning of those birds, ask your mentor to vouch for you.

The only other way to get some really good birds is to study the standard, and see what is winning at shows, by actually going for 2 or 3 years, and buying good culls of a top breeders' flock off traders' row. That's the hard way, and you'll screw up many times since no one has told you what to actually DO with what you've bought.

I have some very good young Buff Orps for sale right now. My first preference is to sell them to people who will rear, show, and breed them properly, based on their track record.They are not cheap, but with them goes my promise of mentoring to ensure the success of the next generation. Most good breeders offer this, but few take advantage of it.That's a pity, but many newbies are under the mistaken impression that they can re-invent the light bulb.
Can I ask you a question ? What chicken breed do you think comes closest to the most oringinal chicken breed.? Or does that even exist anymore?
Which one do you think is our oldest breed ? I would like to have one of the historic olders.
Thanks.
 
Originally Posted by Robert Blosl


I am going to ask does anyone have the whole book Start Where you are with What you have?
It was written by and printed I think by Walt for him. Even if we have nothing but a
photo copy to share with the new people it would be a great read. I learned allot from this book
and my interview with him even though it was a short one he set me straight in many was as a beginner.
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It's been reprinted in New Zealand.
http://tinyurl.com/d2g5alq
Best,
Karen
 
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I am going to ask does anyone have the whole book Start Where you are with What you have? It was written by Ralph Sturgeon and printed I think by Walt for him.
Sounds like an awesome book; I'd love a copy.
http://www.amazon.com/Start-where-you-what-have/dp/B00070I7JE
Perhaps it can be re-published as an e-book? Or one of those print-on-demand things?
Or even better, gotten back in print?

edited to add: on the amazon page, you can click to request that the book be made available on Kindle.
 
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What are you considering at Strombergs.
The show quality sections of birds both large fowl and bantams are from Duane Urch. So are the adult pairs for sale. These are standard bred birds, this does not mean instant show winners. I think all of the other chickens are hatchery birds.
Charlie
This was back a couple of months ago, and I just looked again this evening and most of what they have now is out of season (there were still alot available when I was checking them out). The breed I wanted to get were the Salmon Faverolles, and I still really like that breed a *ton*.
Hi Clucky, light fowl just means they are less stocky in structurethan the heavy fowl.
Best,
Karen

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I've actually been somewhat considering a certain breed from Stromberg's...funny that you mentioned it because I haven't seen a whole lot of talk about them on the forum.

Ok, fess up, what has caught your eye?
VBG,
Karen
Thank you for the info! =) I thought "light fowl" was a similar term for bantam but clearly it's not. Like I've said, I'm a noob and I have a lot to learn. ;) lol Thanks for letting me know. I fessed up at the beginning of this reply, but it was the Salmon Faverolle that I was considering buying from Stromberg's. :)
How long do you plan to live? You need to go to some shows, and see the SOP birds. I mean SHOWS, not fairs which almost always are filled with hatchery birds. Then go look at some hatchery birds. Different as night and day. I get all the catalogs just for entertainment. Look at the Meyer Hatchery catalog online. They have photos of their actual breeding stock. Then go to the various threads here for photos. What the catalogs won't show you is that the hatchery birds in LF are much smaller, and the Bantams are bigger than what is shown or bred under the SOP.
How long do I plan to live? Well...I could drop dead tomorrow in all honesty, but I'm hoping God gives me another 20 years on planet Earth. =P I *have* noticed though, that the bantams are a lot bigger with regard to hatchery and show birds...was quite surprised that some of them actually look more like LF than they do bantams (from hatcheries).
Here are some of each next to each other. It is easy to pick out the hatchery birds from those from a breeder that shows his stock.

Hatchery pullet on far right...


Cockerel and two pullets from the breeder......4 pullets from the hatchery.... the difference is unmistakable.
...perfect time for me to say that I can't tell the difference *other than* the rooster (obviously, because he's a roo) but if I had to guess which ones were breeder and which were hatchery pullets I probably couldn't. The one walking behind the roo, facing the same direction he is facing...and the one right in the middle of the picture on the bottom - those two look fluffier and prettier (to me) than the others but....I'm most likely bass ackwards.
That female next to the skinny one is a nice one. Looks like Matt 1616 Wyandottes he has hope you can get them to reproduce.

In regards to the black issue I cant remember only my memory says try to stick with the beetle black green glow or skein. Someone can come on and help on that issue but move forward and get the birds you want and worry about these things latter. Dont let these items get to you and make mental road stops.

I am going to ask does anyone have the whole book Start Where you are with What you have? It was written by Ralph Sturgeon and printed I think by Walt for him. Even if we have nothing but a photo copy to share with the new people it would be a great read. I learned allot from this book and my interview with him even though it was a short one he set me straight in many was as a beginner.

He stated in his book Start Where you are with what you have. You come to a intersection and ask a guy how do I get to Town. The man says you start here and then........................ you go there.

With Chickens get the best you can find or afford some of the rare breeds are going to be rough and not to pretty but the genes are there to be found. You got to go looking for them and use a term Sturgeon used in his book. You need to put breeding pressure on certain traits. In time you will get what you want or where you want to get to.

The problem with hatchery chickens today to start with is they are so washed out from what they once where. It would take twenty years to breed them up so you got to try to go to some good shows and find those breeds and get you two pairs and roll up your selves and just do it. Take pictures of your grown up birds and post them here and our judges can help you pick out worthy birds for the next year breeding. Then in about three years it all starts to sink in. You will feel more comfortable and your gut and eye will start working and by five years we will be saying Holy Cow look at your progress.

Keep reading and asking questions.
20 years is something I probably don't have, so I would say hatchery stock is pretty much not an option for me. I've seen some really pretty birds from hatcheries but my definition of a pretty chicken and an expert's definition of a pretty chicken are two different things. Whether or not they meet SOP? I have no idea...that's why I'm here...to learn.
True, that...but I don't want to improve the ones from quality breeders. I just want to improve the ones that have been diluted via bad breeding, random breeding and such. Isn't it possible to take hatchery stock and turn it into exceptional? I've heard it's possible but very time consuming...and can take years to breed out the bad...but that is hear say and I'm not sure if it was factual. In which case, it would still be improving a diluted strain of that breed wouldn't it?

[Edited to add] - I'm really not being snarkastic (sarcastic and snarky) I'm asking the question in sincerity. Can you buy a heritage breed from a well-known hatchery (that stocks hatchery stock birds) and breed only those birds, so selectively, that eventually you bring back an exceptional example of that breed? :hmm Like I said, that's what I heard but it sounds far-fetched. If that's possible to do, in my opinion that would be awesome.

Edited by CluckyCharms - Today at 8:22 pm
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Hi Clucky,
Most probably, every breed that you find at a hatchery also has serious breeders from
which you can choose quality stock. There will always be a place for the hatchery birds
with those who just want eggs, meat and pretty colors in the back yard.
Why not take the quality birds bred by serious breeders and make them even better?


Ok, so you want multi-color birds but everyone says you'd do best starting with solid color birds.
Ok, I *think* the reason they are saying that is so you can concentrate on type instead of having to
deal with both type and color. So what about a breed that has Black-Breasted Red male with the
salmon breasted hen? Also known as wildtype. That doesn't need double mating for color.
BBR is a completely recessive color palette which , when pure-breeding, will just self-replicate.
that would give you a pretty bird with multiple colors,but not the color balancing problems.
Both the male and the female have lovely colors. Plus, the chicks are the cutest coloring, just like chipmunks.
Hum,
Karen
It will be 2 years before I can start in on this because I was stupid enough to agree to a deal with hubby, and now I'm regretting it every second of every day. I want to do this now...not 2 years from now, but the point of the deal is that he wants to make sure I want to do it 2 years from now, and not *just* now....so...meh, I'll try to wait it out. I have 2 gold laced brahmas, 2 easter eggers, 1 Norwegian Jaerhon and 1 little Silkie right now. I love them as pets...totally digging their little personalities and funny little quirks and especially their strange habits. But...I don't think I'll be breeding any of those other than the Norwegian Jaerhons maybe. Mainly as far as breeding is concerned, I just want to concentrate on breeds that are having a hard time getting it done for themselves, which would be the true heritage forms of the oldie breeds. With regard to chipmunks - I have to admit one of my favorites is still the Welsummer. I've only had 1 of them and we rehomed her, but I think about her all the time and miss her - she was a pretty little thing. Then again - it may have been a cockerel (not sure).
"Red Jungle Fowl" are generally considered one of the originals. I believe they are still around.
I like those, too.


That's the problem with me, because I'm **new** to chickens there are at least 50 breeds I want to have because of their beauty and within those 50 breeds there are at least 20 different varieties I'd want to have. That's why I chose heritage...because it limits me more and because there are less varieties, and because they're in the most need of being saved.

I saw a Silver Campine too by the way...those are so pretty! And..I still like the Silver Gray Dorking too.

My favorite chicken breeds as long as I live, I can tell you now are *always* going to be the Russians (the original and the spangled ones we see today) I just love them both. That's probably why I like the Faverolles as well...they have a similar type to the spangled russian orloffs that people have here in the states today. To me anyway...they are eerily similar in shape and regal looking faces...particularly the SFs in the UK.
 
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My favorite chicken breeds as long as I live, I can tell you now are *always* going to be the Russians (the original and the spangled ones we see today) I just love them both.
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Well, then just study these birds.
caf.gif
I am tired of suggesting. All that ever comes of it is new enthusiasm for other breeds.
I got nothing else for you.
idunno.gif
Just saying. Hope you find the breed you want and get some super birds to start out with.
Best Success,
Retiring from this "What breed to choose" thread,
Karen
 
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Hi Ya'll!
Junior and his Junettes are in transit as I write!!
wee.gif

They will be here Thursday.
celebrate.gif

I can't wait to meet them!
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My favorite chicken breeds as long as I live, I can tell you now are *always* going to be the Russians (the original and the spangled ones we see today) I just love them both.
-------------------------
Well, then just study these birds.
caf.gif
I am tired of suggesting. All that ever comes of it is new enthusiasm for other breeds.
I got nothing else for you.
idunno.gif
Just saying. Hope you find the breed you want and get some super birds to start out with.
Best Success,
Retiring from this "What breed to choose" thread,
Karen

I'm completely lost methinks, I didn't mean to offend anyone by saying I'm always going to favor the Russians o.o I think the suggestions you gave were great, and I googled them when I read about them, but could only find the one game bird I was considering before. I *definitely* like the black breasted red old english game fowl but the reason I'm trying to stay away from game birds is because eventually I'd like to show them, and the APA says in order to show them you have to dub them (remove their wattles, their earlobes and combs) and honestly? I have no problem culling birds that aren't up to par...but maiming them on purpose for aesthetics, I have a big problem with. :''( I like them though, a great deal.

That's the only black breasted red wildtype I know of, so I thought you were referring to those. If you meant another kind of chicken I'd be excited to hear about it. :) Don't think your contributions aren't being read or considered because I happen to like your posts and I appreciate what you say.
 
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