Bow legged ducklings

[ChickenCanoe]

Well there is a difference. They are already getting the other B-vitamins in their feed.
The yeast is sufficient if the birds had been supplied with adequate niacin from the beginning but they weren't.
How much niacin is in your B-complex? They need about 55 mg per kilo of feed to prevent the problem, not to cure the problem.
Apparently you think you are doing all you can.

 

[Koylotomoto]

Well there is a difference. They are already getting the other B-vitamins in their feed.
The yeast is sufficient if the birds had been supplied with adequate niacin from the beginning but they weren't.
How much niacin is in your B-complex? They need about 55 mg per kilo of feed to prevent the problem, not to cure the problem.
Apparently you think you are doing all you can.

There is 100mg per 1mL which they are recieving once per day. I understand that I am a beginner and really want what’s best for my ducks, if I thought I was doing all that I can I would not have returned to this thread. I’m sorry if I have said something to upset you, i’ve had many people praise the liquid b complex to me and don’t want to stop administering it if it could really help them like it has helped so many others. There is no reason to get rude ):

 

[meyerc06]

There is 100mg per 1mL which they are recieving once per day. I understand that I am a beginner and really want what’s best for my ducks, if I thought I was doing all that I can I would not have returned to this thread. I’m sorry if I have said something to upset you, i’ve had many people praise the liquid b complex to me and don’t want to stop administering it if it could really help them like it has helped so many others. There is no reason to get rude ):

The response was a little bit curt, but I’ll agree that it IS possible that some amount of deformity may be irreversible. You’re catching it early so there’s a better chance that you can correct the issue OR at least prevent it from getting worse. While straight niacin may be a better or more direct approach, I wouldn’t go so far as to say that the B Complex isn’t a suitable substitute. As you’ve mentioned, many others have used it with good results. The presence of other B Vitamins in the supplement really is a different topic of discussion and not directly related to your current dilemma. There might be some concern of giving them too much of things unnecessarily (I myself haven’t researched it enough to comment), but again that’s sort of besides the point here.

I’ll share my beginner duck experience with you for whatever it’s worth -
I got four Pekin ducklings from Meyer Hatchery after doing what at the time seemed like adequate research beforehand. About two weeks in, I noticed one was sitting more than the others. Still eating and getting around and happy, but sort of seemed almost lazy. And she was growing a little bit slower than her brother and sisters.
I came on here and found out that I should be supplementing her niacin. I was feeding Purina Duck Starter Crumbles, which reported the correct amount of niacin (55mg/k which translates to some other mg count per lb of food, which is an important distinction btw...you can search it out - I can’t remember at the moment). I had read Isaac 0’s post about niacin needs, but I somehow missed the part where he said that Pekins have higher requirements, around 70mg/k. So, I went and got the B Complex and some brewer’s yeast.
As I mentioned, I had a heck of a time getting her to take the B. She shook her head violently when I tried to give it orally and fought me like crazy. I’m sure she wasn’t getting enough because it was coming out the other side of her beak and getting all over me. I tried endless types of treats, but even separating her made it hard to get her to take the treats, since she was so upset about not being with the others.
I let it deter me. I’d still try, but I let it go on longer than I should have, believing it would correct itself or I’d still have time to correct it because she was still young.
So at about week 3 1/2, she was sitting more and it was getting worse. I came across the Metzer article referenced above, where he basically says “damage done is done”. I freaked out and set out to make sure she got every bit of her requirement, no matter what.
For me, the easiest was to do it in the morning after I cleaned their house. I’d put the other theee back and leave her in the other container. I’d give her mealworms with the B on top, a little water, and even some crumbles in it too. I doubled the dose. Inevitably she wasn’t getting the full dose otherwise, and with an extremely low possibility of overdose, I thought it was worth it.
At 8 weeks, I took her to the vet. She was walking poorly, flipping her feet over and standing on them, and it was rough. The vet said I had to decide about her quality of life. I don’t actually know if it was a niacin deficiency, or an unknown poorly healed injury, or a birth defect. Whatever it was, damage done.
My husband and I talked it over daily. We moved them into their outdoor home, and she loved it. She seemed happy except for the walking. I was going to see my family out of state and we agreed we’d make a decision when I got back.

She’s 14 weeks now and walks really funny, stiff-legged like she’s marching in the German army. Her legs have gotten much stronger, though, and although it looks weird, she gets around fine and hardly ever trips on her feet. She’s always going to be a little bit of a “special needs” duck, but she is happy and her flock mates come back for her when she’s a little behind them in the yard. I’m so happy that we have her time.

ALL this to say, stick with what you’re doing and don’t be deterred. Maybe increase the niacin? Idk, that’s your personal decision and I’m no expert. The damage could partially be done, but you’ll save her from more damage by sticking to it. Exercise is HUGE! They’re young yet but any chance to get out of the brooder and walk/swim does wonders for developing bodies. And even if she has a forever different walk, that’s not necessarily condemning her to a bad life at all. My Annie is proof of that. Birds can be incredibly resilient even with how delicate they are.

 

[Koylotomoto]

The response was a little bit curt, but I’ll agree that it IS possible that some amount of deformity may be irreversible. You’re catching it early so there’s a better chance that you can correct the issue OR at least prevent it from getting worse. While straight niacin may be a better or more direct approach, I wouldn’t go so far as to say that the B Complex isn’t a suitable substitute. As you’ve mentioned, many others have used it with good results. The presence of other B Vitamins in the supplement really is a different topic of discussion and not directly related to your current dilemma. There might be some concern of giving them too much of things unnecessarily (I myself haven’t researched it enough to comment), but again that’s sort of besides the point here.

I’ll share my beginner duck experience with you for whatever it’s worth -
I got four Pekin ducklings from Meyer Hatchery after doing what at the time seemed like adequate research beforehand. About two weeks in, I noticed one was sitting more than the others. Still eating and getting around and happy, but sort of seemed almost lazy. And she was growing a little bit slower than her brother and sisters.
I came on here and found out that I should be supplementing her niacin. I was feeding Purina Duck Starter Crumbles, which reported the correct amount of niacin (55mg/k which translates to some other mg count per lb of food, which is an important distinction btw...you can search it out - I can’t remember at the moment). I had read Isaac 0’s post about niacin needs, but I somehow missed the part where he said that Pekins have higher requirements, around 70mg/k. So, I went and got the B Complex and some brewer’s yeast.
As I mentioned, I had a heck of a time getting her to take the B. She shook her head violently when I tried to give it orally and fought me like crazy. I’m sure she wasn’t getting enough because it was coming out the other side of her beak and getting all over me. I tried endless types of treats, but even separating her made it hard to get her to take the treats, since she was so upset about not being with the others.
I let it deter me. I’d still try, but I let it go on longer than I should have, believing it would correct itself or I’d still have time to correct it because she was still young.
So at about week 3 1/2, she was sitting more and it was getting worse. I came across the Metzer article referenced above, where he basically says “damage done is done”. I freaked out and set out to make sure she got every bit of her requirement, no matter what.
For me, the easiest was to do it in the morning after I cleaned their house. I’d put the other theee back and leave her in the other container. I’d give her mealworms with the B on top, a little water, and even some crumbles in it too. I doubled the dose. Inevitably she wasn’t getting the full dose otherwise, and with an extremely low possibility of overdose, I thought it was worth it.
At 8 weeks, I took her to the vet. She was walking poorly, flipping her feet over and standing on them, and it was rough. The vet said I had to decide about her quality of life. I don’t actually know if it was a niacin deficiency, or an unknown poorly healed injury, or a birth defect. Whatever it was, damage done.
My husband and I talked it over daily. We moved them into their outdoor home, and she loved it. She seemed happy except for the walking. I was going to see my family out of state and we agreed we’d make a decision when I got back.

She’s 14 weeks now and walks really funny, stiff-legged like she’s marching in the German army. Her legs have gotten much stronger, though, and although it looks weird, she gets around fine and hardly ever trips on her feet. She’s always going to be a little bit of a “special needs” duck, but she is happy and her flock mates come back for her when she’s a little behind them in the yard. I’m so happy that we have her time.

ALL this to say, stick with what you’re doing and don’t be deterred. Maybe increase the niacin? Idk, that’s your personal decision and I’m no expert. The damage could partially be done, but you’ll save her from more damage by sticking to it. Exercise is HUGE! They’re young yet but any chance to get out of the brooder and walk/swim does wonders for developing bodies. And even if she has a forever different walk, that’s not necessarily condemning her to a bad life at all. My Annie is proof of that. Birds can be incredibly resilient even with how delicate they are.

Thank you so much for this response. It makes me very hopefully that my duckling can have a fulfilling life. I will keep at it with the b complex. They love watermelon so I don’t have much difficulty getting them to eat it. I’ve also been feeding them the Purina Flock Starter. Before getting the ducklings I read about how they need more niacin which is why chick starter is not suitable, so considering the flock starter is for ducklings as well I was wrong to assume that all of the required vitamins would be there :/
They get daily swim and outdoor time so I hope the exercise is doing him/her some good. The other duckling that was slightly bowlegged is much much better now after I started with the b complex. I’d like to think that the severity of the deficiency of the extremely bow legged duckling is the reason why the problem isn’t being fixed as quickly for him/her. He/she is still young so I have hope

 

[meyerc06]

Thank you so much for this response. It makes me very hopefully that my duckling can have a fulfilling life. I will keep at it with the b complex. They love watermelon so I don’t have much difficulty getting them to eat it. I’ve also been feeding them the Purina Flock Starter. Before getting the ducklings I read about how they need more niacin which is why chick starter is not suitable, so considering the flock starter is for ducklings as well I was wrong to assume that all of the required vitamins would be there :/
They get daily swim and outdoor time so I hope the exercise is doing him/her some good. The other duckling that was slightly bowlegged is much much better now after I started with the b complex. I’d like to think that the severity of the deficiency of the extremely bow legged duckling is the reason why the problem isn’t being fixed as quickly for him/her. He/she is still young so I have hope

It sounds like you’re doing everything right, and I am optimistic that you’ll have a good outcome. One suggestion, I’d highly recommend Mazuri Waterfowl Starter. It’s correctly balanced and the best out there. I think they have it on Chewy.com now. You can save the flock feed for later on when their niacin requirements are lower, if you want. I intend to continue with the Mazuri myself.

You know, even with a well-balanced food, each duckling has different individual requirements which is why you can have a deficiency in one and the rest of the flock is totally fine. Plus, Pekins are such a heavy breed that they need a little more help in making those little legs strong enough to hold all that weight! They grow unbelievably fast. Like kids, treasure these times because they’ll be huge and ready to move out on their own before you know it!

 

[Koylotomoto]

It sounds like you’re doing everything right, and I am optimistic that you’ll have a good outcome. One suggestion, I’d highly recommend Mazuri Waterfowl Starter. It’s correctly balanced and the best out there. I think they have it on Chewy.com now. You can save the flock feed for later on when their niacin requirements are lower, if you want. I intend to continue with the Mazuri myself.

You know, even with a well-balanced food, each duckling has different individual requirements which is why you can have a deficiency in one and the rest of the flock is totally fine. Plus, Pekins are such a heavy breed that they need a little more help in making those little legs strong enough to hold all that weight! They grow unbelievably fast. Like kids, treasure these times because they’ll be huge and ready to move out on their own before you know it!

Thank you so much. I went to two different stores and all both had for ducklings was Purina Flock Raiser. I needed further options for when they grow older and need less protein, now I know to look on Chewy thank you again, it means a lot and is extremely helpful in calming my mind about the wellbeing of my duck.

 

[Isaac 0]

The question here is how long is will take for them to show improvement, correct?

There's no straight answer as how a bird absorbs the niacin, depends on several factors such as genetics, how depleted they were in niacin, and tryptophan conversion. Generally the younger the bird the quicker recovery time seems to be, so for a two week old duckling, it might several weeks. You need to keep up the dosing each day, and hopefully you'll see improvement soon, and if you don't you need to start considering other problems.

Whether you want to give niacin or B complex is a personal choice, I am aware B complex's contain other ingredients, but I am unaware if these ingredients somehow effect niacin absorption in anyway, regardless of the matter, avian vets seem to recommend B complex for niacin deficiencies, and we haven't seen any reported side effects just yet, so I see no reason to stop. If you want to give straight niacin that's fine too, just don't get any "flush-free, time released" kinds.

 

[Koylotomoto]

Hi everyone, just an update but he’s only gotten much much worse. I’ve been administering the B complex since I first posted this thread on the 14th. I will include pictures but his right leg is severely pigeon toed and with his left leg he nearly lays it flat on the ground and puts the weight on his hock instead of his foot. The thigh bone is beginning to lengthen so he can use the hock rather than the foot, and his toes are coming together rather than being spread apart. The other two ducks are also now nearly twice the size of him, his growth is severely hindered. I’m not sure what to do, I will continue with B complex but any other advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Trisseh]

Has his tendon slipped? That leg looks quite twisted from the hock so definitely something to double check. If you already checked and I didn’t see it in previous posts, my apologies.
The Poultrypedia Podiatry may be of help to you as well... I would be concerned that it’s not a straight niacin issue with this one, personally. The retarded growth is not niacin mediated, although if he’s having trouble getting to and from the food he may just not be eating as much as he should for optimal growth...

 

[Koylotomoto]

Has his tendon slipped? That leg looks quite twisted from the hock so definitely something to double check. If you already checked and I didn’t see it in previous posts, my apologies.
The Poultrypedia Podiatry may be of help to you as well... I would be concerned that it’s not a straight niacin issue with this one, personally. The retarded growth is not niacin mediated, although if he’s having trouble getting to and from the food he may just not be eating as much as he should for optimal growth...

I looked into slipped tendon a few weeks ago but didn’t think it was that because it hadn’t progressed to this point yet and still looked much like Niacin deficiency. I’m now looking into slipped tendon and am thinking that it’s very much possible. He still eats and drinks plenty but he walks much less than the others so you’re likely right about him not getting enough for proper growth. With times being so hard at the moment with the virus I wanted to do what I could on my own with niacin supplementation and avoid the vet if possible, but now that i’m seeing the vet is my only option I wish I had just gone at the start :/ then again it looked so much like Niacin deficiency that if the vet didn’t have an expertise with ducks they may have thought the same