Breed Stewards Thread

[Ducks and Banny hens]

Yeah, Showing is very shallow.
- Seramas are judged by size. The smaller the better. So to win the ribbon, you have to breed the smallest, most typey specimens. That's how they word it to make it sound positive. Here's how it's said practically: 'So to win the ribbon, you have to breed from the tiniest birds, lacking good utility, and being so small that they can freeze solid in 12 seconds at -10 C.'
Showing doesn't sound so apealling anymore...

 

[punk-a-doodle]

I think traits like intelligence and hardiness are great. But, as a buyer, it's not the only thing I'm interested in. If I want a docile chicken for whatever reason, 'dumb' animals can be great for docility, as can animals bred to have less fight and wariness. If I want to eat my birds young, 20 year life-spans aren't going to be important to me. If I want colored eggs or large eggs because I make my living off of sculptured and engraved eggs, I'm going to pick those traits over things like a bird needing or not needing a heated coop, or predator wariness. There are many different things people look for, and many different breeds. I personally love the diversity, because I can pick and choose. On a personal level, I might avoid sickly breeds or breed a line to my desired wishes. On a broad level though, I realize that not everyone wants tough-as-nails birds. So as with most things, breed/raise what you like, but you'll also find that others are doing the same for different traits.

 

[Maggiesdad]

That's all fine and dandy too, but from a SHTF standpoint, and it will sooner or later, the hardy fertile bird will prevail, and the coddled bird will be gone in a generation.

I don't eat feathers.

 

[punk-a-doodle]

Quote: So breed your birds for hardiness. Problem solved. I'm glad to be able to walk multiple paths though. Get to see a lot more this way.

 

[Oregon Blues]

I don't want my livestock to be intelligent. I'm not going to sit down with them to discuss Calculus and smart animals are harder to keep confined.

It is more difficult to kill animals if they are obviously intelligent. A lot of people have difficulty killing geese because it is so obvious that there is somebody in there.

Smart enough to come in out of the rain and smart enough to not eat food that makes them sick is plenty bright enough for a creature who is going to end up on the table.

 

[Ducks and Banny hens]

I don't want my livestock to be intelligent. I'm not going to sit down with them to discuss Calculus and smart animals are harder to keep confined.

It is more difficult to kill animals if they are obviously intelligent. A lot of people have difficulty killing geese because it is so obvious that there is somebody in there.

Smart enough to come in out of the rain and smart enough to not eat food that makes them sick is plenty bright enough for a creature who is going to end up on the table.

Sorry, don't quite agree with you; Perhaps smart animals are tricky to confine, yes.
But butchering is not a matter of intellegence. It's a matter of people. Those people who have trouble killing geese because 'there's somebody in there', are probably going to have trouble slaghtering any animal. It's something they have to learn: There is never anybody in there.
And there are more things birds need to be smart with. Perhaps freezer-bound birds can be stupid (i.e. my Culls), but birds you use to breed should be smart enough to:
-evade predation.
-seek shelter
-discern food items
-cocks protect hens
-cocks and hens teach chicks
-food location
If a bird cannot meet these requirements, he/she meets my freezer...

There's also the What-If factor that nobody's brought up yet. There are lots of people about that believe the world is coming to collapse on itself and that the only survivors will be those who can sustain themselves. Now, I'm not one of those people; as you can read in some of the previous pages, I have higher reasons for this stewardship. But that's something to think about: What if all forms of technology fail completely for some reason? What then? I dare say, many birds will inevitably die. The birds that have come over the generations to depend on heat-lamps, and chemically-enhanced feeds, and incubators. Those are the flocks that would collapse.

 

[Blaineiac]

This is a great thread (at times). sorry. I believe this should be the first step in preserving any breed. Be it starting with a breeders trio, or 50 hatchery chicks. Let mother nature cull for you. Hatchery chicks should give you atleast a trio which is already seasoned. If you start with a trio you'd hopefully have a seasoned hen to help raise the chicks. People don't realize that most good breeders cull down to 10% for their own keepers. Let nature do the culling and select your keepers based on desired traits, you should be on your way to a decent flock. I don't think it matters how you ultimately use your birds, self-surviving birds need to be the basis for your flock.

 

[Ducks and Banny hens]

This is a great thread (at times). sorry. I believe this should be the first step in preserving any breed. Be it starting with a breeders trio, or 50 hatchery chicks. Let mother nature cull for you. Hatchery chicks should give you atleast a trio which is already seasoned. If you start with a trio you'd hopefully have a seasoned hen to help raise the chicks. People don't realize that most good breeders cull down to 10% for their own keepers. Let nature do the culling and select your keepers based on desired traits, you should be on your way to a decent flock. I don't think it matters how you ultimately use your birds, self-surviving birds need to be the basis for your flock.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[cgmccary]

Quote:

There is another type of breeder, a step above the two "only" types you depict. like myself, who breed to preserve the breed. I breed to preserve my breed. If breeding to preserve a breed, then laying eggs, nice looking birds and survivability (among other traits) are ALL important. It is all a matter of looking at the SOP from the standpoint of what it was meant for -- breeding toward the SOP idea of the particular breed will yield a bird fitting its intended purpose. When the SOP's descriptions for body type and such were written, the breeds were the poultry industry. If you understand the SOP from this standpoint, then exactness in everything is not necessary (and the reason for SOP's ranges in weight, etc. are better understood) -- only, that if your breed is an egg laying breed -- then that is what it should do / if a meat bird, then it should make a nice dinner & if dual purpose, then it should do both reasonably well (but not as well as a bird bred specifically for that single purpose) -- breeding close to the SOP and its ranges will bring about these traits.

Also, when breeding to preserve the breed, then genetic diversity is another trait you are selecting for. In other words, you don't keep all the best looking birds or the best layers (BECAUSE THEY MAY ALL COME FROM THE SAME PAIRINGS) but you keep the best from the different family groups you maintain.

By "smartest" bird, you are referring to bird's gaining experience about the outside world & running from danger, then those would fit breeds known for being "flighty" -- I like friendly birds, birds that forage well and so them NOT being flighty sometimes can work against them with predators and surviving. I have a dog and donkey for that purpose.

As to the post last month that dogs and poultry do not mix, I BEG TO DISAGREE. It is a matter of kind of dog, the individual dog and its training. Many folks, such as myself, could not free range our birds without the dogs. My three dogs go in my pens and coops with me. My birds do not react to them because I have the birds acuustomed to them -- this way, a predator in a pen, the dog is comfortable going in and taking on the predator. My dogs have NEVER killed one of my birds. My geese attack my dogs, and I have the dogs where they will not strike back. I also train the dogs to back away from an attacking rooster or hen (I have a hen or two who try and attack a dog & ones with chicks sometimes attack even me). The donkey is good about keeping away coyotes and coons (my dogs have to watch their backs but the dogs and donkey know one another-- a strange dog gets attacked by the donkey. Just my humble opinion.

 

[Ducks and Banny hens]

As to the post last month that dogs and poultry do not mix, I BEG TO DISAGREE. It is a matter of kind of dog, the individual dog and its training. Many folks, such as myself, could not free range our birds without the dogs. My three dogs go in my pens and coops with me. My birds do not react to them because I have the birds acuustomed to them -- this way, a predator in a pen, the dog is comfortable going in and taking on the predator. My dogs have NEVER killed one of my birds. My geese attack my dogs, and I have the dogs where they will not strike back. I also train the dogs to back away from an attacking rooster or hen (I have a hen or two who try and attack a dog & ones with chicks sometimes attack even me). The donkey is good about keeping away coyotes and coons (my dogs have to watch their backs but the dogs and donkey know one another-- a strange dog gets attacked by the donkey. Just my humble opinion.

Very good. I, like you, attribute the entire concept of free-range to be made possible by the presence of a good dog. In my case a decade-old mountain dog, who has been around chickens and cats, and cattle and people most of his life -- he will never attack any protaganist on purpose, and he's basically to old to harm anything during play, like a pup might. I lke him, because he raises quite a ruckus nearly all the time -- we've gotten used to it, but predators are to scared to come nearby.

And yes, I didn't think about preservation. This is rare, but very important to the world. Part of being a steward is to protect the quality of something, and that's what preservation does.