Breeding a new chicken breed

[Arjun Masthi]

What color are you planning for this breed? Breeding for a consistent color really sets birds apart from landraces, but I see why you wouldn't pay attention to it. The type and performance is far more important, then you can see what colors you end up with.

I did ponder a while. I would also try to get some sort of uniformity in colour. I currently have the options of:
Salmon, Birchen, Columbian (buff and light), Partridge and duckwing. Also have a blue and ofcourse spangled from the spitz.

I'll try seeing which color would be easiest to fix and see if down the line, some sort of uniformity appears in colour...

 

[Silviaschicks]

Any updates?

 

[Chicalina]

I've just come across this thread. What an interesting project!

I can add, if it's helpful, that I've bred Polish crosses and they tend to breed out the vaulted head and have a much more sensible sized crest which does not impede vision as much, though with both beard and crest you are risking it. I'd choose one or the other if it were me.

With Polish, you also get beards, clean feet, V comb, fairly good leg length, hyper-alertness to predators, great laying ability and sometimes broodiness (really depends - mine do go broody). They are lean and very good foragers. The males are way bigger than females and I would assume better for meat.

Here are 3 of my crosses for info (polish/silkie), none of whom had vaulted heads (the paint one is still a chick):

 

[Arjun Masthi]

Any updates?

Getting some Orpingtons too soon. And my sebrights are taking longer than my patience to mature I'll send a few pictures of some chicks soon.

 

[Arjun Masthi]

I've just come across this thread. What an interesting project!

Thank you very much!

I can add, if it's helpful, that I've bred Polish crosses and they tend to breed out the vaulted head and have a much more sensible sized crest which does not impede vision as much, though with both beard and crest you are risking it. I'd choose one or the other if it were me.

Yes, so the plan is to see if the beard impedes vision. If they do, that goes out.

I do have a doubt. Are the crosses heterozygous or homozygous for crest genes? Heard that only two pairs of the crest gene create a vault in predisposed birds. So even if they carry the vaulted gene from a polish but not from a Silkie, they may carry a gene? Just curious.

With Polish, you also get beards, clean feet, V comb, fairly good leg length, hyper-alertness to predators, great laying ability and sometimes broodiness (really depends - mine do go broody). They are lean and very good foragers. The males are way bigger than females and I would assume better for meat.

Yes, it is quite an interesting prospect. Though, the meat I'm looking at is in the range of a Brahma but yes, so many positives.

Here are 3 of my crosses for info (polish/silkie), none of whom had vaulted heads (the paint one is still a chick):

The birds are beautiful!!!

 

[MysteryChicken]

Sorry, I have no idea.



I think it's possible to breed out the cranial vault while keeping the crest. When I see photos of Polish-cross chicks, they usually have normal shaped heads, but still grow crests.

If the vision impairment was a problem with Silkies, could it be due to the texture of the feathers? Once you get normal feathers (first generation offspring), the crest might stay up out of their way better. So you might be able to manage the original birds by clipping the crest feathers short, and not have a problem with their normal-feathered offspring. (Maybe.)

(I'm not really trying to change what you're doing, just musing about whether these might be less of a problem than you first thought.)

It's possible to not get a crest at all sometimes.

Silkie X RJF/Hybrid

 

[Chicalina]

Thank you very much!

Yes, so the plan is to see if the beard impedes vision. If they do, that goes out.

I do have a doubt. Are the crosses heterozygous or homozygous for crest genes? Heard that only two pairs of the crest gene create a vault in predisposed birds. So even if they carry the vaulted gene from a polish but not from a Silkie, they may carry a gene? Just curious.

Yes, it is quite an interesting prospect. Though, the meat I'm looking at is in the range of a Brahma but yes, so many positives.

The birds are beautiful!!!

I don't know about crest genes I'm afraid, and the kippen calculator makes my brain scramble! @NatJ is great with genetics.

I'll have to go back through old photos and see if my polish and/or silkie had vaulted skulls when they hatched. None of their offspring did, that I am sure.

I only meant the meat part as a contribution to your preference for leaner meat. Size would definitely come from the Brahmas!

Thank you! I sold the gold laced as although he was lovely and sweet, he was by far the noisiest chicken I've ever had! Would have made a fantastic burglar/predator alarm! He would sound off at a gate shutting, a footstep, or a strong wind! Kept the black and paint. I've never seen such iridescence on a pullet.

 

[NatJ]

Are the crosses heterozygous or homozygous for crest genes? Heard that only two pairs of the crest gene create a vault in predisposed birds. So even if they carry the vaulted gene from a polish but not from a Silkie, they may carry a gene? Just curious.

I don't know about crest genes I'm afraid, and the kippen calculator makes my brain scramble! @NatJ is great with genetics.

I can at least translate the question

Arjun Masthi is trying to figure out whether the crossed chicks (that had crests but no vaulted skull) had one copy of the gene for crest, or two copies of the gene.

If you aren't sure about the genes, can you remember whether both parents had crests or just one parent had a crest? We can figure part of it out from that.



More explanation (ignore if you're not interested):

"Heterozygous" for crest gene means the chicken only has one gene for crest, plue one gene for not-crest. It's what you get when you cross a Polish to a not-crested breed. Some people say "split" to mean the same as heterozygous. "Hetero" means two things are not the same.

"Homozygous" for crest gene means the chicken has two genes for crest. It's what you usually get when you breed a Polish to another Polish. Some people say "pure" for a gene to mean the same thing. "Homo" means two or more things are the same.

If your crested chicks had one parent with no crest, then those chicks must have been heterozygous (split) for crest. The only way to get a chicken homozygous (pure) for crest is if both parents have crests.

 

[Chicalina]

I can at least translate the question

Arjun Masthi is trying to figure out whether the crossed chicks (that had crests but no vaulted skull) had one copy of the gene for crest, or two copies of the gene.

If you aren't sure about the genes, can you remember whether both parents had crests or just one parent had a crest? We can figure part of it out from that.



More explanation (ignore if you're not interested):

"Heterozygous" for crest gene means the chicken only has one gene for crest, plue one gene for not-crest. It's what you get when you cross a Polish to a not-crested breed. Some people say "split" to mean the same as heterozygous. "Hetero" means two things are not the same.

"Homozygous" for crest gene means the chicken has two genes for crest. It's what you usually get when you breed a Polish to another Polish. Some people say "pure" for a gene to mean the same thing. "Homo" means two or more things are the same.

If your crested chicks had one parent with no crest, then those chicks must have been heterozygous (split) for crest. The only way to get a chicken homozygous (pure) for crest is if both parents have crests.

Helpful as always! Thank you.

I think the discussion was not only about crests but also vaulted skulls. We know that chickens can have crests without vaulted skulls, which I think is what Arjun is aiming for.

I can't remember whether my crosses' parents had vaulted skulls (which is only properly visible when they are chicks - I might be able to find some chick photos of them), but they certainly both have crests. Father is a silkie with a small crest, mother is a polish with a larger one.

When I crossed my silkie (crested) with my wyandotte (no crest), the offspring all had a very small crest (think legbar sized). If that's relevant, probably not.

And don't you just love it when ancient Greek so obviously forms part of our language still!! That is so cool.

 

[NatJ]

I can't remember whether my crosses' parents had vaulted skulls (which is only properly visible when they are chicks - I might be able to find some chick photos of them), but they certainly both have crests. Father is a silkie with a small crest, mother is a polish with a larger one.

So if you crossed two crested birds (Silkie and Polish), the chicks probably were pure for the crest gene (homozygous). Yet I think you said those chicks did not have the vaulted skull? I think that's what @Arjun Masthi was trying to figure out.

And don't you just love it when ancient Greek so obviously forms part of our language still!! That is so cool.

I think so too, although I've met some people that do not agree with me about that