Breeding Delawares to the Standard of Perfection

[gjensen]

Most of the time, at least . . .it is brassiness. Genetic.

 

[CountryLife4Me]

Fascinating! I had no idea that the sun could change their color. I'd love to give her a bath so I could see if it's just dirt, but I can't get my hands on her yet. We recently got her and she won't let us pick her up quite yet. Maybe I'll find out in a few weeks when she's more trusting of us.

I'm assuming brassiness is not a good breeding trait is it? I have lots to learn! ;0)

 

[newmanmichael]

Fascinating! I had no idea that the sun could change their color. I'd love to give her a bath so I could see if it's just dirt, but I can't get my hands on her yet. We recently got her and she won't let us pick her up quite yet. Maybe I'll find out in a few weeks when she's more trusting of us.

I'm assuming brassiness is not a good breeding trait is it? I have lots to learn! ;0)

Correct, brassiness is not a good trait to pass on but I see it a lot even with my own flock. I have heard folks say to keep your birds at least two years (especially cocks - but who has the room to keep a lot of cocks around for 2 years!) before mating so you can pick out the birds that aren't as prone to it. I've recently been reading more about genetics and there's a difference between dominant white and recessive white. From my understanding recessive white tends to be "whiter" (and I would assume not as prone to brassiness) but most people who show their white birds in exhibitions keep them out of the sun and also bathe them with some blueing solution to make them whiter.

I wonder if feed has anything to do with it? Like feeding corn to your birds? I've heard arguments for and against that as well but haven't done any personal testing.

Once she molts she should come back in bright white but the sun will yellow the feathers again eventually. The dirt certainly doesn't help either!

 

[gjensen]

Personally, I think you keep a cock until you replace him with a proven improvement, he stops being fertile, or he dies. Even if I need more space or less birds. I feel the same way about hens. I cannot see how we can build any depth, if we breed within a single generation. BUT, there is no reason to hold onto inferior birds either.

Scott, Yard full of Rocks, understands this matter well. He also understands what it takes to clean them up. He would be a good source of information. I would ask him about it. I came to the conclusion that we will never "clean" them up mating silver to silver.

There may be a degree of yellowing due to feed or sun, in some birds. I have not experienced it. My experience has been with simple brassiness. I could have fed them vanilla ice cream, and kept them confined to a closet, and they would have still gotten it. I am speaking in jest of course.

Like I said, Scott would be helpful on this subject. More than I would be.

 

[newmanmichael]

 Personally, I think you keep a cock until you replace him with a proven improvement, he stops being fertile, or he dies. Even if I need more space or less birds. I feel the same way about hens. I cannot see how we can build any depth, if we breed within a single generation. BUT, there is no reason to hold onto inferior birds either.

 Scott, Yard full of Rocks, understands this matter well. He also understands what it takes to clean them up. He would be a good source of information. I would ask him about it. I came to the conclusion that we will never "clean" them up mating silver to silver.

 There may be a degree of yellowing due to feed or sun, in some birds. I have not experienced it. My experience has been with simple brassiness. I could have fed them vanilla ice cream, and kept them confined to a closet, and they would have still gotten it. I am speaking in jest of course.

 Like I said, Scott would be helpful on this subject. More than I would be.

Great point! I have hens that are 4 years old and I just keep going back to them because I love them over the off spring. Lost my favorite cock last year and am using a different one from a different line. I like him pretty well and will keep him until I can find a proven improvement.

Early on I wanted to make quick progress by switching things up every year but sometimes it's better to wait and see how birds finish out, prove their laying ability beyond that first year, hardiness, and just overall quality. It's a waiting game for sure but at least it's not a slow as breeding larger livestock.

 

[caychris]

Great point! I have hens that are 4 years old and I just keep going back to them because I love them over the off spring. Lost my favorite cock last year and am using a different one from a different line. I like him pretty well and will keep him until I can find a proven improvement.

Early on I wanted to make quick progress by switching things up every year but sometimes it's better to wait and see how birds finish out, prove their laying ability beyond that first year, hardiness, and just overall quality. It's a waiting game for sure but at least it's not a slow as breeding larger livestock.

This may seem like a crazy question but how many times would you mate a hen over the course of a season assuming you could mate them to different roos.

In essence if you were just trying to develop pairing data for comparison purposes and you could raise out a large number of offspring how many clutches per pair and the size of clutch would you hatch?

 

[newmanmichael]

This may seem like a crazy question but how many times would you mate a hen over the course of a season assuming you could mate them  to different roos.

In essence if you were just trying to develop pairing data for comparison purposes and you could raise out a large number of offspring how many clutches per pair and  the size of clutch would you hatch?

Maybe some more experienced breeders came chime in but for me I consider January to May breeding season but I'm in Northwest Florida where our winters are mild. Also depends on egg production of the birds. You can put lights on them to trigger their little chicken brains to start laying if your daylight isn't long but some folks don't recommend that. That being said, I like to keep at least 3 weeks between cocks on my hens. So in December I put my matings together (if they aren't already) and then start collecting 3 weeks later if they are laying. Once I have a sufficient enough birds on the ground from that matting (depends on what project I'm working on) I'll then switch, wait at least 3 weeks and then start collecting eggs again. Some have told me to wait long but in a pinch I think you're safe at 3 weeks. So really probably only 2 different matings per season for me.

Once June hits a lot of my birds, especially my older breeders shut down. Some of them are even molting.

That's just my 2 cents I'm sure others have different experiences/opinions.

 

[gjensen]

Everyone comes to their own place on these matters. It depends on what you want to do, what you plan to do, what you can do, and what the birds will let you do. If you can handle the successive generations, you can set eggs until there is no more eggs to set. I would not recommend crossing them with kangaroos though.

I tend to think that 16-24 eggs from a mating gives you a pretty good idea what is there or not. I have tried to get a better fee for that, but the numbers make sense to me. That could not prove all of the possibilities, but you can get a decent feel for it. You can do that in one year,two years, three years etc. Or a spring, fall and spring hatch. It is all about what you want to do.

I have a trio that did pretty well for me (better than the others), so I did it again. I plan to do it once more. Really, I plan to do it as long as it is working and they are willing and able. I tried these two hens with another cock bird, but I did not get anything useful. I went back to where I come from.

 

[gjensen]

Great point! I have hens that are 4 years old and I just keep going back to them because I love them over the off spring. Lost my favorite cock last year and am using a different one from a different line. I like him pretty well and will keep him until I can find a proven improvement.

Early on I wanted to make quick progress by switching things up every year but sometimes it's better to wait and see how birds finish out, prove their laying ability beyond that first year, hardiness, and just overall quality. It's a waiting game for sure but at least it's not a slow as breeding larger livestock.

Everyone comes to a different place. That is just where I ended up. When you have three generations on the yard, there is some distance between the first and third. Also you know what you are getting from the older birds. I can see getting rid of a bird, and wish that I would have tried to get a few more from. I do not know a lot, but I have decided that I want to get what I can from something that works. Too often something does not work, even though logically, it should have.

I have a particular bird on my mind right now that I wish I would of held on to. I thought that I had what he brought to the table, but now I am wondering. I think that I made a mistake.

More and more I am learning to be patient.

Often I see this person or that speaking well of this cross or this breeding. I always wonder if they will think so highly of it in a couple years. It might be that we wish we had one of the originals back. They can act as a control, giving us a second chance. Or just a resource. I feel safer moving forward when I can reach back. Maybe that is my inexperience speaking.

 

[caychris]

Maybe some more experienced breeders came chime in but for me I consider January to May breeding season but I'm in Northwest Florida where our winters are mild. Also depends on egg production of the birds. You can put lights on them to trigger their little chicken brains to start laying if your daylight isn't long but some folks don't recommend that. That being said, I like to keep at least 3 weeks between cocks on my hens. So in December I put my matings together (if they aren't already) and then start collecting 3 weeks later if they are laying. Once I have a sufficient enough birds on the ground from that matting (depends on what project I'm working on) I'll then switch, wait at least 3 weeks and then start collecting eggs again. Some have told me to wait long but in a pinch I think you're safe at 3 weeks. So really probably only 2 different matings per season for me.

Once June hits a lot of my birds, especially my older breeders shut down. Some of them are even molting.

That's just my 2 cents I'm sure others have different experiences/opinions.

Everyone comes to their own place on these matters. It depends on what you want to do, what you plan to do, what you can do, and what the birds will let you do. If you can handle the successive generations, you can set eggs until there is no more eggs to set. I would not recommend crossing them with kangaroos though.

I tend to think that 16-24 eggs from a mating gives you a pretty good idea what is there or not. I have tried to get a better fee for that, but the numbers make sense to me. That could not prove all of the possibilities, but you can get a decent feel for it. You can do that in one year,two years, three years etc. Or a spring, fall and spring hatch. It is all about what you want to do.

I have a trio that did pretty well for me (better than the others), so I did it again. I plan to do it once more. Really, I plan to do it as long as it is working and they are willing and able. I tried these two hens with another cock bird, but I did not get anything useful. I went back to where I come from.

Yeah I think that last part "what the birds will let you do" is probably the most important. I was thinking of a 10 day on 20 day off cycle but that may not result in good clutch sizes with much reliable data.