Breeding Delawares to the Standard of Perfection

[gjensen]

There are feathers everywhere, they've only been in that pen for 2 weeks, so they are molting, but their wings have all been that way since they first feathered at about a month of age. It's difficult to tell if they have their adult feathers. They're not like SG Dorkings, where there is an abrupt transition from scruffy looking weird colored to wow he looks like a Dorking.

They all have too much barring, most of them have identical barring on their upper back (cape?) The only one with slightly less black is #6 (pictured) and he still has too much.

Too much black in your Catalanas or NH?

Too much black in the Catalanas. I am "building" an outcross on the side. I will need some relief. I have been able to get a few without excessive black in the surface color and a smutty under color. That is not all my problems either. I a starting to feel ore confident about the how to do it. I just need a couple more breaks. In the meant time, I am making my own break.

Concerning the wings, my NHs have looked sloppy until they grew in their adult feathers. There is a couple in your photos that are worse than what I have seen.

I noticed number six. Do you have any cock birds with less black? I remember some nice hens.

 

[capayvalleychick]

Too much black in the Catalanas. I am "building" an outcross on the side. I will need some relief. I have been able to get a few without excessive black in the surface color and a smutty under color. That is not all my problems either. I a starting to feel ore confident about the how to do it. I just need a couple more breaks. In the meant time, I am making my own break.

Concerning the wings, my NHs have looked sloppy until they grew in their adult feathers. There is a couple in your photos that are worse than what I have seen.

I noticed number six. Do you have any cock birds with less black? I remember some nice hens.

Good luck with them.

I'm down to only 2 F4 cocks from Kathy. The sire of all that I produced this year :

R21 who has lots of barring


and R18 who has slightly less barring but is a little brassy.

I meant to hatch some chicks from him but ran out of time and cool weather.

 

[gjensen]

R21 is better. I would have used him first to.

 

[capayvalleychick]

I've always been a little leery of culling chicks, unless there is something obviously wrong with them. I've read that some breeders cull for size at hatch. I will cull any chicks that are way behind the group as far as size.

I really want to speed up the rate of growth with the Delawares, so I was thinking about culling for lower weight and slower feathering at a month of age. I kept notes on them all and identified all the chicks which were fastest to develop and the weights. I decided to wait for culling.
Now, looking at what I've got, I realized that if I had culled for weight prior to a month of age, I would have culled all my pullets. If I would have culled for slower feather development, I would have culled all but 2 of my cockerels. So, I'm glad that I waited.
I'm not sure whether this would be the same for other strains of Delawares or if it is specific to this (Kathy's) line.

 

[newmanmichael]

I've always been a little leery of culling chicks, unless there is something obviously wrong with them. I've read that some breeders cull for size at hatch. I will cull any chicks that are way behind the group as far as size.

I really want to speed up the rate of growth with the Delawares, so I was thinking about culling for lower weight and slower feathering at a month of age. I kept notes on them all and identified all the chicks which were fastest to develop and the weights. I decided to wait for culling.
Now, looking at what I've got, I realized that if I had culled for weight prior to a month of age, I would have culled all my pullets. If I would have culled for slower feather development, I would have culled all but 2 of my cockerels. So, I'm glad that I waited.
I'm not sure whether this would be the same for other strains of Delawares or if it is specific to this (Kathy's) line.

It's good to keep track but not necessarily cull for the reasons you just mentioned!! Wouldn't egg size also contribute to large/smaller chicks, at least that first month? I have a Delaware (not Kathy's line) that lays a pretty big egg and all of the chicks I get from her are bigger than the others at hatch.

 

[capayvalleychick]

It's good to keep track but not necessarily cull for the reasons you just mentioned!! Wouldn't egg size also contribute to large/smaller chicks, at least that first month? I have a Delaware (not Kathy's line) that lays a pretty big egg and all of the chicks I get from her are bigger than the others at hatch.

I agree. That is something that I've heard other breeders say that they do. They cull the lowest third ( or some other %) for weight at hatch. It's never seemed like a good idea to me and now I have reason why not, at least in this case.

Yes, egg size effects size of chicks. I also learned, this year, not to hatch pullet eggs that are golf ball shaped. Got some tiny chicks that did not thrive. They weren't Delawares. I did hatch from Delaware pullet eggs but they were large sized and produced normal size chicks.

 

[LindaB220]

Is this with Kathy's line of birds? I don't quite have a breeding program lined out for them yet for myself. I know they are still project birds (and beautiful ones at that) and I'm still not quite sure what I have in them yet but I am certainly excited to be working with them. I plan to keep a pure line of her birds but also make some crosses to my current line of Delawares. My Delawares aren't the best but I do like how fast they feather out and their egg laying ability. The size and frame on Kathy's line though is amazing!!

Generally type, from my understanding will give you better results for laying/meat. A long bird with a deeper chest and wider body will have more room all the organs needed for good egg producion and a bigger frame for meat. (there are always exceptions to this though, I have a nice heavy/big "exhibition" bird that lays the smallest egg, it's so ridiculous it's not even funny). Something I recently read was not to necessarily pick the fastest maturing/dominant male out of your cockerels. Very often the comb and wattles develop early but their body stops growing, so you end up with a bird with a nice looking head but he's not fully grown out and his hatch mates out grow him in the long run. (paraphrased from Breeding for Success by Grant Brereton gbpoultry.com and I recommend his books as I have gotten some great pieces of information from them).

Another great read is Call of the Hen and can be found here for free: https://archive.org/details/cu31924003144031 I downloaded the PDF version (on the left) and printed it out so I can read it with no computer. It discusses looking at the head, evaluating the body with your hands to make determinations about laying ability and I blieve it goes over trap nesting which is really the only 100% way to know for sure how many eggs each bird is laying. And there is an old plymouth rock book https://ia700404.us.archive.org/0/items/cu31924003096397/cu31924003096397.pdf with some wonderful pieces of information in it too.

Michael, the second book is great. I've not seen it before. Over 440 pages so it's long. Will have to take my time but it's outstanding. I've got the Call of the Hen and it's great too.

 

[gjensen]

I agree. That is something that I've heard other breeders say that they do. They cull the lowest third ( or some other %) for weight at hatch. It's never seemed like a good idea to me and now I have reason why not, at least in this case.

Yes, egg size effects size of chicks. I also learned, this year, not to hatch pullet eggs that are golf ball shaped. Got some tiny chicks that did not thrive. They weren't Delawares. I did hatch from Delaware pullet eggs but they were large sized and produced normal size chicks.

Kim, other than good care, I do not even consider who is who until they get their first set of feathers and I can sex them certainly. I like to go through them, when they start getting their adult set, and then after they have finished growing them in. That time frame is different for different birds, but when they start to molt their first set out, to me, is a good time to select for rate of growth. Culling here is on going, but that is when I am paying particular attention. Often, who I am favoring early is who I favor late.

Yes, the eggs should reach a reasonable size before they are set.

If you are considering sexual maturity along with rate of growth, pay attention to both. If you have size to spare, keep that in mind. If they are reaching a good percentage of their standard weight, by a decided time (and all else is equal), a smaller bird ay be worth considering.

I never saw Delaware as champions of size. An 8 1/2 cock bird is not a giant. Their strength was reaching a fryer weight early. Fryers then, is different than how we see them now. In fact, I see oversized Delaware as a disadvantage. It takes time to develop those frames. I would want them a little over standard weight at about 9lbs or just a bit more. 10lbs, to me, would be bordering excessive. Feed efficiency is certainly relevant, but so is the amount of feed we feed the breeders the rest of the year. In particular the layers.

Just opinions, as always.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Michael, the second book is great.  I've not seen it before.   Over 440 pages so it's long.   Will have to take my time but it's outstanding.    I've got the Call of the Hen and it's great too.    

They're going to be my summer reading. Pretty exciting.

 

[caychris]

Here is my first Delaware from a breeder @fortyfivefarm Im not entirely sure of the heritage or the desire of the breeding program but this guy is 6 weeks old Im thining he is a cockerel but Del's can fool you.

Sure has a lot of barring so far. My hatchery Dels never showed this much color ( feathers) this early and they were hens so the comb and wattles at this age were pretty mutes on most of them one did sort of start this way around this age though. Compared to my CLB same age though the comb is small.