Breeding Dogs

[chinbunny]

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Stray mutts came from a humans irresponsibility somewhere along the line. Period. A shelter does not create the problem, that's a joke. They are trying to help the problem someone else created. Any animal that ends up in a shelter or rescue, has been failed by a human at some point along the line.

They are the ones creating the problem. They are the ones blaming everyone else but themselves for the problem. They are the ones killing and hoarding animals, because they make it almost impossible to buy from them. Its getting late. I am not going to continue to argue the point with you. you have your opinions, I have mine. Just don't go blaming breeders for the dogs ending up at your shelter.

 

[RabbitMage]

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No, it's like saying only the people who can afford to properly care for them should have pets. People who keep dogs chained in the yard 24/7 and feed it nothing but Ol' Roy probably shouldn't have them. I guess I'm 'lucky' in that my state agrees with me, at least about the chaining bit.

And Chinbunny, I find it a little ironic that you (or any rabbit breeder) are putting blame on the shelters for killing animals when they have too many, are low on space, or have animals they can't find homes for.

 

[chinbunny]

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Check the link again.

 

[chinbunny]

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No, it's like saying only the people who can afford to properly care for them should have pets. People who keep dogs chained in the yard 24/7 and feed it nothing but Ol' Roy probably shouldn't have them. I guess I'm 'lucky' in that my state agrees with me, at least about the chaining bit.

And Chinbunny, I find it a little ironic that you (or any rabbit breeder) are putting blame on the shelters for killing animals when they have too many, are low on space, or have animals they can't find homes for.

Being that I have had chained dogs in the past, I don't agree with that either. Its not animal abuse, and there is nothing wrong with it. Plenty of people keep their dogs like that, like it or not, and they are happy and healthy. My first two dogs were kept outside and were happy, and well cared for. Neither is feeding old roy. At least the animal has a home.

Well, its true.

 

[Terri]

Thats between you and God.

 

[RabbitMage]

So while it's unacceptable for a shelter to euthanize an animal that they couldn't find a home for in order to make room for another animal who may have a better chance, it's a-ok for rabbit breeders (and this includes me) to cull their rabbits? Ethically, why is this different?

As far as chaining...would you be comfortable selling one of your rabbits to someone who kept them in a single hole carrier and fed them nothing but corn and iceberg lettuce? Because keeping a dog on a chain and feeding it Ol' Roy is pretty well the same. In either situation I wouldn't let an animal go to a home like that, because it would eat at me.

 

[rebelcowboysnb]

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I just love how people can freely bad mouth the pour on here. I don't have a dime to my name most of the time so I cant afford that kind of fee. I own my on house on several acres. My dogs all live in the house, have a fenced yard an a dog door that I hand built. I get compliments about the health of my doge all the time an Im so proud of them that they have there on webcam.

Rabbitmage you are a bigot, you dont like the pour. Im sure if you said that same comment an replaced the part about money with a race an everyone would be all over you. I see no difference.



Im walking away from this thread now. The respectable conversation is gone.

 

[RabbitMage]

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I just love how people can freely bad mouth the pour on here. I don't have a dime to my name most of the time so I cant afford that kind of fee. I own my on house on several acres. My dogs all live in the house, have a fenced yard an a dog door that I hand built. I get compliments about the health of my doge all the time an Im so proud of them that they have there on webcam.

Rabbitmage you are a bigot, you dont like the pour. Im sure if you said that same comment an replaced the part about money with a race an everyone would be all over you. I see no difference.

I'm sorry if you take my implication that people who can't afford to properly care for animals shouldn't own them as me being a bigot, or as me being down on the poor. I assure you I'm neither. I am pretty passionate about human rights in general, about programs designed to give those in need a hand up, and I'm also very passionate about responsible and ethical animal ownership. I've seen the consequences of people being discriminated against, berated, even threatened or hurt because or who or what they are, and felt this impact myself. I've seen people in poor financial straits try to pull themselves up without anything to grasp on to. And I've seen the effects of '...and we just didn't have the money' on pets.

I don't like any of those situations, and I hate to see them happen.

 

[lishah2000]

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Shelters don't breed animals, so they don't cause their problems. They don't adopt out intact animals for pretty clear reasons. You don't buy from a shelter, you adopt. Our shelter is a low kill because they work hard to adopt out those animals, offer free or low cost spay/neuter to the community and educate. They often take animals from other high kill shelters - to get them adopted. Some of those shelters are so crowded the animals get three days at the most.

I adopted a cat and a dog from my shelter. (both owner surrender and purebreeds). I recently took in a kitten someone dumped in the parking lot where I work. The two from the shelter cost me $45 and $50 (that was quite a few years ago, it would be $85 and $100 now). The kitten I took in cost me close to $500 for spay and all the necessary shots and treatments she needed. The shelter was a better deal and my vet is also the shelter's vet.

 

[savingdogs]

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I very much agree with Rosemary. My background is a person who has volunteered in dog rescue for 12 years, devoted about four of them mainly to border collie rescue, I own a border collie myself and have worked for veterinarians, including several who specialized in reproductive medicine, so we catered to breeders. I currently care for dogs at a boarding kennel/veterinary clinic. Chickens are alas, my second love. Here is my advice for you:

Breeding dogs, when done right, is a very complicated and competitive world. Very little money is made by those who really do it right. Doing it the "wrong" ways, and there are many, many mistakes to be made especially if you don't put alot of money into it up front with great dogs, that lead to more dogs burdening the already overcrowded shelters. You might be surprised at the number of border collies currently being put down every year at your local shelter. They are a hard dog to rehome and can be a very challenging pet. People take them on and have no idea what they are getting into.

And as the person who collected money from the breeders to pay their veterinary bills, I saw it happen over and over again that they would sigh and realize they would never recoup all their expenses for this litter. On c-section and your litter gets pretty expensive. Our veterinarian suggested a breeder have at least 2,000 of ready cash set aside just in case their are complications with your litter, and I've seen it go much higher than that. I think it was Grey Horse Woman or (I'm sorry I forget the name of the person who posted) who outlined well the expenses leading up to even getting to that stage.

This year our rescue organization has taken in many more purebred dogs than ever before because of the economy. Border collies were very common here when our county was changing over from more rural to more urban in some areas, so the types of dogs available in any given area goes through cycles. City families adopt border collies because they are "small". It can be very hard for these dogs to be family "backyard" dogs as they have problems with chasing moving objects such as children's legs as they are swinging on swings, laser lights, bicycles going by, etc. They just can't sit around alone. Mine will try to herd butterflies. They certainly herd children.
Border collies are at their best as either working dogs on a farm doing actual herding, or with someone wanting to be "active" with their dog in some way. Agility, jogging partner, etc. If they are not kept busy they can be extremely destructive. Someone who really works with their dog and spends tons of time training it to do tricks or otherwise be highly trained can have a successful border collie pet, but they are the exception, not the rule. Some of them are overly sensitive and others need a really strong leader figure. They can be awesome dogs and I love my BC like I love my kids, she is the best. ........
However I really hope you decide not to breed dogs. Nothing personal. We should leave dog breeding for those people winning blue ribbons at the top dog shows and whose dogs will 100 percent be in demand. Perfect health specimens and standards of their breeds, done by people as dedicated as some I've seen. I believe that in a breed such as this, people working their dogs for agility and real herding ought to be the ones breeding border collies that are also winning at the shows because that is the place this breed excels and where its drawbacks are overshadowed by the dog's intellect.

Also, there are puppies in rescue if you are patient. Contact your local border collie rescue and let them know you are patient, but you'd like as young as possible. My own border collie was four months old when we adopted her from our rescue.

A great place to start with any breed is just to own one, you might try a spayed-neutered one!