BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[Arielle]

Quote: Ahh you have hit on two of my dreaded nightmares. At this point mine are young enough to still listen to mom. I'm trying to plant the seed now to not join up for any military duty--

SIL had to deal with such a situation, but it was her daughter sneaking out to meet "him" at the park at midnight. Police showed up and the boy ran, she got caught. SIL was NOT happy. Marched her daughter to the boyfriends a few days later, where the boy glared at my SIL-- she simply asked him , would you like to tell to your parents or shall I ? That got her more glares. CLearly his parents did not know.

My third night mare is driving.

 

[Arielle]

Here is a question that I have been mulling over for a few hours.

Got an email from a friend, and he mentioned lack of width in the body of 2 buckeye hens he has. Good on all else: long keel.

To understand how to widen the body, we discussed width of head and heavier legs. I have heard the width of skull is tied to the width of the body but not the legs. I personally like a lighter boned carcass. Because I have no evidence to support it, it is only my opionion. His kowledge is lighyears ahead of mind.

Thoughts on this?

Not sure I can last much longer--getting late here-- look foreward to reading responses in the morning. Stay warm.

 

[gjensen]

Raising ONE boy was enough for me! He was an all-American boy with many of their natural proclivities. Only had to 'bail him out' once ...for exercising the primal urges of most teen age boys...he was caught slipping out the window of a girl's bedroom.

Keep in mind...he was invited in. He learned his lesson from that...never again got caught..

Seriously, as good as my son was as a kid; hard worker, excellent student and went to WVU on a baseball tag, the greatest stressor of my life was when he told us he was joining the Marines. I tried to pay him not to do it.

I don't think I could have survived having more than one kid...not that we didn't try. It just wasn't in the cards.

You think a lot of your son and it shows. When does he get back?

 

[hellbender]

You think a lot of your son and it shows. When does he get back?

Right you are! I will be picking him up in Pittsburgh PA., February 18...It's been a very long wait.

Thank you for asking.

 

[gjensen]

Here is a question that I have been mulling over for a few hours.

Got an email from a friend, and he mentioned lack of width in the body of 2 buckeye hens he has. Good on all else: long keel.

To understand how to widen the body, we discussed width of head and heavier legs. I have heard the width of skull is tied to the width of the body but not the legs. I personally like a lighter boned carcass. Because I have no evidence to support it, it is only my opionion. His kowledge is lighyears ahead of mind.

Thoughts on this?

Not sure I can last much longer--getting late here-- look foreward to reading responses in the morning. Stay warm.

Arielle, I am no expert. This is how I see it though.

Size is a compilation of genes, regardless of the section. It is not like there is a gene for a large head and it is linked to some gene for a wide body.

It is true that larger wider birds tend to have larger heads, and smaller lighter birds tend to have smaller heads. Still there is variation from bird to bird.

Just see it as any number of genes compiled to contribute to the collective. To get a feel for it, you have to pick a breed and get to know that breed. Learning what is desired in that breed and what is good for that breed. Then it is a matter of starting with what you have and applying pressure to change them over time. Your axe is the pressure.

The width of the skull is an important point, as the width of the back. See each section, but see the whole bird. You are trying to achieve a balance. Not just symmetry to please the eye, but for functional considerations as well.
Like you mentioned lighter bones. You really want a appropriately sized bird with it's weight well centered up nicely on appropriately sized legs. If the bird is a heavy breed, you want that bird to be supported well by good sized and strong legs.
Balance is huge. You want your bird to be structurally sound and healthy first, then productive, and pleasing to the eye. Without the first the rest doesn't matter a whole lot.

I have been admiring some nice Shamo online lately. Then you see the ones with knock knees. Ruins the entire bird. No matter how good an individual might have been, it is worthless (in my eyes) on bad legs.

 

[draye]

OKay, read thru page 3. Marking to be able to find again.

 

[hellbender]

OKay, read thru page 3. Marking to be able to find again.

Welcome to the thread...I hope you enjoy it!

 

[Arielle]

Quote: Walt Leonard wa kind enough to compare a few birds for me at the NECP---looking at the legs specifically between two birds side by side. As he was comparing the good bird to the better bird, I made a visual picture of a wide rectangle, almost a square, between the legs. The rectangle helps me visualize the that knock- kneed is in apropriate ( NOT inferring that the good bird had this-- it didn't) rather the leg bones are parallel from the front view, and the widh between the legs at the hocks is the same as the width at the feet; and the picture proptionally was almost a square ( which should apply to any dual purpose chicken, right?)

I would bet that there is a genetic link between skullwidth and body width which is why tht selection works; there are always exceptions to the rule, but by following the rule, width should improve. Having said that, might be easier to just select for the width as step one, and wide head step two. ( If I am making any sense here!)

So that addresses the stance.

As for bone: the amount of bone is important to me because extra bone is generally a waste --and increases the amt of minerals the birds need daily. So I"m trying to understand how to eval the amt of bone, and how to determins what is appropriate. ( I did see a couple cornish at the show, and looked at the birds legs. The lightbulb went on: that is why the cornishcross has heavy bones, and bone size is very heritable.

I am from the horse world--legs are everything.

 

[gjensen]

Walt Leonard wa kind enough to compare a few birds for me at the NECP---looking at the legs specifically between two birds side by side. As he was comparing the good bird to the better bird, I made a visual picture of a wide rectangle, almost a square, between the legs. The rectangle helps me visualize the that knock- kneed is in apropriate ( NOT inferring that the good bird had this-- it didn't) rather the leg bones are parallel from the front view, and the widh between the legs at the hocks is the same as the width at the feet; and the picture proptionally was almost a square ( which should apply to any dual purpose chicken, right?)

I would bet that there is a genetic link between skullwidth and body width which is why tht selection works; there are always exceptions to the rule, but by following the rule, width should improve. Having said that, might be easier to just select for the width as step one, and wide head step two. ( If I am making any sense here!)

So that addresses the stance.

As for bone: the amount of bone is important to me because extra bone is generally a waste --and increases the amt of minerals the birds need daily. So I"m trying to understand how to eval the amt of bone, and how to determins what is appropriate. ( I did see a couple cornish at the show, and looked at the birds legs. The lightbulb went on: that is why the cornishcross has heavy bones, and bone size is very heritable.

I am from the horse world--legs are everything.

It is linked in a sense. The point to consider was that when you discuss these things, you are not talking about single genes. it is a collection of genes. There is no single gene for head size for example. or one for the back. It is a little different than genetic talk for color where one they talk about how a single gene acts with another.

 

[gjensen]

Right you are! I will be picking him up in Pittsburgh PA., February 18...It's been a very long wait.

Thank you for asking.

Not much longer. Good for you two.