BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[hellbender]

me too.... in that order.

Excepting of course, my son! lol

 

[Arielle]

Does anyone track productivity in terms of rate of growth and pounds of feed to reach that growth?? OTher than cornixh x which I'm NOT including here, I don't hear about feed efficiency, so I was curious?

Hellbender I bet you have some thoughts on this.

 

[BGMatt]

Does anyone track productivity in terms of rate of growth and pounds of feed to reach that growth?? OTher than cornixh x which I'm NOT including here, I don't hear about feed efficiency, so I was curious?

Hellbender I bet you have some thoughts on this.

Used to, but I found with standard bred birds that if I just selected for the quickest growth rates (simply by size of bird at each checkpoint along the way) it served my purposes better and feed conversion improved year after year when I bred from those birds. (The birds would get bigger, but I wasn't using measurably more feed than the previous year.)

I'd imagine tracking this type of thing would be more important for those that are crossing breeds in an effort to create their own meat "breed" however.

 

[gjensen]

I have always tracked everything religiously. I did slack up last year. Had a lot to look at and consider. Was just trying to build a flock with all of the pieces.

I found with the birds that I have had, the biggest and fastest was also the biggest eaters. Feed efficiency was always poor compared to the modern hybrids, and I only tracked by pen and not individuals. I saw what individuals did after they were separated.

The same with eggs. I know what a pen does and some individuals.

There is a link between appetite and growth rate. Also the permeability of the intestines which also links the bird to an increased vulnerability to infection.

You can push anything too far.

 

[Arielle]

Quote: With this selection method, you mention the birds get bigger, but does the proportion of meat get "bigger"?

I would think the same procedure would be the same for heritage and for a project bird.

 

[Arielle]

I have always tracked everything religiously. I did slack up last year. Had a lot to look at and consider. Was just trying to build a flock with all of the pieces.

I found with the birds that I have had, the biggest and fastest was also the biggest eaters. Feed efficiency was always poor compared to the modern hybrids, and I only tracked by pen and not individuals. I saw what individuals did after they were separated.

The same with eggs. I know what a pen does and some individuals.

There is a link between appetite and growth rate. Also the permeability of the intestines which also links the bird to an increased vulnerability to infection.

You can push anything too far.

Looks like you had a good tracking system!!!

In theory, by pen should be effective, if you breed by pen. ANd I would expect the biggest eaters to be the biggest growers, to be the biggest eaters. But is that efficiency? I discounted the cornishx outof this question because nothing will beat them for conversion. However, I"m not entirely keen about eating a bird stuffed full of grain. Ultimately I want a bird that can forage not sit at a feeder like mine do.

I suspect that I need to develop a feeding system and then select those birds that thrive on that system.


What leads you to beleive that there is a change in the permiability of the intestinal wall??

 

[gjensen]

If you look it up you can find some information on it. That is not a factor in our birds. I just threw it out there. There are many traits that come together to make the commercial birds what they are. The enhanced ability to absorb the nutrients is one of them.

My interests have evolved a bit. I doubt I will get into the same things the way I did before. I imagine it will always be part of it though.

 

[Arielle]

I remeber the ram trials at the sheep barn for UMO. Comparing the raims for growth in the same environment to best assess their comparable growth rates.

Looking back I realize now that growth rates are relative to a given set of circumstances. BUt when looking for stock to buy, that is when such info is very helpful. IMO after reading much here, and I will state I am no expert, but rather this is my observation at this time, most birds have not been kept for meat nor eggs as the primary importance or source. OR else mor selection pressure would have been puton these birds. I am happy to say that with some effort and sluething and tons of reading I hope I have found some lines worth testing out.

Freerange chicks seem to develop differently than penned birds and having said that, the CX take it to a whole nother level. ALl that feed flowing thru very quickly, how can the natural growth of the microflora keep up. Will look up more on the GI issues, but often think the leaky bowel issues are because the natural microbes of the GI are not kept at optimal levels. Is this what you mean?

 

[hellbender]

I hope you guys would keep my thread going while I 'gone' for a very extended period. No, not going to prison...Just gonna' be too busy around here to mess with the good folks here on BYC. I will be back...that's a threat, not a promise!

 

[Arielle]

I did some reseach and found this: It was a response to a question.

"Young Buckeyes do eat more feed than my La Fleche, but it is not substantially more. Also, it is about the same as other heavy breeds I have kept in the past. Buckeyes also grow faster and get much larger than my La Fleche. I have raised a lot of my Buckeyes on free range with mother hens from day one, and they do not require much feed or no care for that matter. I have noticed they grow just as fast as the brooder/ penned Buckeyes so they are hustling for their food. Of course, they go anywhere they want and are only locked up at night. The only downside to hens on free range is that they can only cover so many chicks. Adult Buckeyes coming in at dusk from the fields and forest have crops that are packed full every evening. They range far and wide and sometimes can be seen covering my entire 6 + acres and beyond. They are also great at keeping the cow patties raked and scattered. I see them eating the bugs & undigested seed in the cow manure, all plentiful in winter too. The La Fleche are great foragers also & I believe would survive just as well without any feed. I have never seen Buckeyes consume four to five times as much feed as other breeds but this may be because I get mine out on pasture, even if brooder raised, as soon as possible. I have selected mine for their ability to grow on pasture. I once banded & kept a cockerel who relentlessly followed the cows around all day catching flies off them ( I still have him). I would ask those whose Buckeyes are consuming so much feed "what are they feeding them?" Perhaps, those folks need to get a better quality feed because the Buckeyes may need something nutritional (protein?) that is lacking in their feed. Or perhaps some feed is being wasted." -- CM

I also found some andecdotal information on growth rates. A line can be fast growers but mature at a smaller adult body weight compared to another line, or one which grows slower but finishes larger.

I have been mulling this over since I read it in two different plaes posted by two different people. IMO these two factors reflect the breeders goals and the feed available.

I have struggled with how to provide for a buckeye flock of vouracious eaters. I imagine the cornish cross growing fast like a teenage boy and like that teen always looking for more food to feed a growing body. I think about how to provide that nutrition and more and more I am viewing the natural fresh foods from a well manged plot of land as a better plane of nutrition than bagged feed. WHile I cannot eliminate the bagged feed, perhaps I can manage the land differently.

I do like the very orangey egg yolks from the layer flock that raid the second cut hay for the horses . . . .