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Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by hellbender, Dec 27, 2013.
Will keep looking!
Do you remember if it was on this thread?
On April 8th 2014 you posted that you would work on the feed recipe and have it up in a couple of days. The search for the word feed stops there without a post with the feed recipe. I will move forward from there post by post to see if it is there without feed in it.
For the different testimonies on this or that, I cannot take them to heart. I cannot accept that this is good or not just because someone said that it is. The only way that we can ever really know is if we trial with control, genetically similar birds side by side.
I hear claims of increased performance etc. all of the time, but as the reader, there are a lot of unknown variables. Then whether we like it or not, perception rules, and is often not accurate. If we think that we have something good, then we have convinced ourselves that we do. Unless evidence by comparison is proven, the testimony does not amount to much. Just because someone says that they have realized an increase in egg production does not make it true. There are too many variables to consider, and we have to assume that the writer accurately tracks the eggs laid over an entire year. Year after year. And without a control, how is it proven? There are many things that can explain a claimed upswing in the egg laying. Then we cannot examine the condition of the birds, or know of their care and condition beforehand. Sometimes there is an improvement, but sometimes the birds were not well managed beforehand. To be even more confusing, all of our birds are not genetically identical.
I have listened to claims that this or that works well, and then visit the person. Sometimes, once we see and feel the condition of the birds we find another story. Sometimes they are too fat, too thin, or just in poor condition. Sometimes they are in decent condition, but the egg shells are thin. Increased performance? Compared to what? Then how long has this person been keeping poultry. 1, 2, 5, or 10 years?
There has to be evidence before I will accept it. I have found for myself too many times that who I was listening to, was someone that could use a refreshment course themselves.
I am not saying that we should never listen to anybody ever, or any other silly thing. What I am saying is that we should approach everything with a healthy does of skepticism. If we try something new, we should evaluate it thoughtfully, and have something to compare it to. I cannot say how many times along the way, I thought that I was doing something good, to realize later that I was doing nothing at all. I certainly do not want to repeat it and convince someone else of it.
For the record, I have not been convinced that fermenting feed could not be a benefit. I do not believe some of the more outlandish claims. I have heard some say that they have saved 50% on feed. Really? Increased egg production? All of the commercial studies in controlled settings with quantities of birds, show no increase in egg production. They do show a reduction in the amount of feed consumed with no drop in egg production.
There are some things I wonder about. Can a cheaper feed be improved by the process? Does it have to be fermented as long to receive a similar improvement? Can making a wet mash, and adding probiotics be an equivalent? etc. etc. etc.
There is too much evidence out there in controlled studies to dismiss the idea altogether. On the other hand, there is some risk involved. I am skeptical, but I am not ready to dismiss it altogether. I see Bee as a credible source, so I will consider it on that alone.
I will play with it a little bit again this year. I am not devoting my flock to it though.
One good way is to experiment with it. It didn't work for Ron, but I like it and it works for me. I do have to discontinue it until after the surgery, but that's another story
I remember putting it up on the Heritage Large Fowl...not sure if it was the first part or part two.
I thought I put it up here too.
If push comes to shove, I'll re-do it but not looking forward to it...lol
EDIT: I think I put it up on the FF thread as well, in fact I'm almost certain of it.
Getting a late start on chores. Jason is milking goats and if the cards were in my favor, he would have to get used to it! lol
It's -10*F here (not bad compared to some I know) but it's 81*F in Porto Alegre, Brasil. If Ariel even had a passport, I'd be making flight reservations today!
Off to do my duties.
EDIT: I'm going to quietly suggest to Ariel to call and get information on pulling together her passport!!!
Something else for our protein formula.
We have found a meat processor (slaughter house) who saves all tongues, hearts, kidneys and lungs for us too. They are cooked and mostly fed as a top dressing for the dogs. But if we had more, I would mix it all into the overall formula for the chickens too. Wouldn't do them a bit of harm but should go them lots of good!! Again...this mess works for me, and that what counts...for me.
Thinking about getting the same organs from the sheep they slaughter and perhaps even the goodies from pigs too. I've seen our chickens eat right through the pig droppings (before the pigs got mean toward them) so the pig organs would have to be fine in the overall package. JMHO
I can get beef liver, kidney and heart tops. I feed it raw to the dogs, but the heart tops are mostly fat, which is too much for my dogs. Do you think the chickens/turkeys would be ok eating that and should I cook it for them first? I could give them a little liver/kidney as well. This is from the local butcher. Everything else is kept for human consumption around here.
It would be fine to feed raw.
We like beef heart and especially tongue and we eat it once in a while but most people around here can't even stand the sight of the tongue but will eat bologna 'til it runs out their ears...jajajajajajajaja
Fixed right, beef tongue tastes just like brisket (the skin peals right off after being braised for a couple hours). Makes great cold sandwiches.
The heart is a bit strong tasting for most people...it's a bit 'tinny' in flavor.
We eat a lot of things (on occasion) that most would have to be starved to even consider.