BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[jbkirk]

I should have noticed the "...." at the end of the verse.
Now, moving on. is the blood specks thing hereditary?

 

[gjensen]

I should have noticed the "...." at the end of the verse.
Now, moving on. is the blood specks thing hereditary?

Yes. It can be genetic. All lines will have some, and some more than others. Marans are famous for them. You can't candle interior quality in the darkest brown egg breeds. Though I doubt that is the reason now. No one candles their eggs for this. Just the commercial guys, and the reason white eggs have dominated the market for so long.

 

[gjensen]

Mr Jensen if you were in WVA now the weather may have you migrating south again.

We got 14 in of snow here after today. I imagine the mtns of WVA are even worse..

An interesting thought. Years ago I was in conversation with a gentleman in south Ohio. He said the best fowl come from the north east states. It takes a strong bird to survive the brutal winters plus the cold kills off a lot of the diseases that are common in the deep humid south..
The fowl in the south are naturally weaker because of all the diseases and the weather and environment.

I'm curious as to your thoughts on that belief.

I certainly prefer southern winters, though we have been given a little taste a few times in the last few years.

Concerning the north east, south east thing . . . I do not buy it all together. It still boils down to selection, no matter where they are. More than that, if chickens were not as adaptable as they are, they would not span the globe.

I can see how some lines could become more resilient to some pressures over time.

I wouldn't think that the chronic disease pressures are much more prevalent in the South. They are communicable diseases. What we have here, you have there. It depends on what they have been exposed to.
Maybe concerning parasites and some bacteria. I can imagine a poultry yard in the southeast accumulating a load faster, just by the growing season lengths. Then we are humid to.

It might be true that some diseases are more common in the south. I could see fowl pox being more of a problem in Louisiana vs. Arizona for an example.

It seams that perceptions like this are built on limited experiences. I could picture someone drawing a conclusion based on buying some birds in poor condition from the south, and then getting some good stock from the North East. Some would have that experience, and maybe hear of someone having that experience, and then it becomes established "truth". It sounds good, but it is not based on strong evidence.

If this was true, then the birds from the south would be more resistant to disease. I do not see that as the case. I would expect them to be as susceptible overall as similar flocks in New York.

I think overall that there would be a similar amount of good stock both north and south. Simply put I would say the variation is more line to line than region to region. There is certainly some poorly kept fowl in the south. I bet that is true in other places also.

Both cold winters and disease pressures are equally pressure. However, the biggest pressure of all is the man or woman with the axe. That is what makes them or breaks them, makes them good or bad, strong or weak.

 

[gjensen]

Was really enjoying this thread, but I don't think arguing semantics is going to solve anything here.

I appreciate all the knowledge I've gleaned thus far & have a project in mind for next year. I've been raising Malines for a couple of years & been very pleased with their ability to put on weight feeding 15% protein grower ration. The only downside is the large, single comb that gets frostbite in our frigid winters up here in Canada. I plan to use my rooster over Buckeye hens, which I will grow out from hatching eggs this spring. My goal is to achieve a more cold hardy meat bird.

It would be a lot less work and money to dub their combs. That is what I would do if I was happy with the birds I had.

Then if that is too problematic for you, Chanteclers were the Canadian solution to this problem. They have good combs for this already.

 

[ocap]

I certainly prefer southern winters, though we have been given a little taste a few times in the last few years.

Concerning the north east, south east thing . . . I do not buy it all together. It still boils down to selection, no matter where they are. More than that, if chickens were not as adaptable as they are, they would not span the globe.

I can see how some lines could become more resilient to some pressures over time.

I wouldn't think that the chronic disease pressures are much more prevalent in the South. They are communicable diseases. What we have here, you have there. It depends on what they have been exposed to.
Maybe concerning parasites and some bacteria. I can imagine a poultry yard in the southeast accumulating a load faster, just by the growing season lengths. Then we are humid to.

It might be true that some diseases are more common in the south. I could see fowl pox being more of a problem in Louisiana vs. Arizona for an example.

It seams that perceptions like this are built on limited experiences. I could picture someone drawing a conclusion based on buying some birds in poor condition from the south, and then getting some good stock from the North East. Some would have that experience, and maybe hear of someone having that experience, and then it becomes established "truth". It sounds good, but it is not based on strong evidence.

If this was true, then the birds from the south would be more resistant to disease. I do not see that as the case. I would expect them to be as susceptible overall as similar flocks in New York.

I think overall that there would be a similar amount of good stock both north and south. Simply put I would say the variation is more line to line than region to region. There is certainly some poorly kept fowl in the south. I bet that is true in other places also.

Both cold winters and disease pressures are equally pressure. However, the biggest pressure of all is the man or woman with the axe. That is what makes them or breaks them, makes them good or bad, strong or weak.

I remember a discussion on another thread (might have been one of Blosl's) about buying and shipping east to west or west to east or south to north or north to south. I could see how one bad experience could travel word of mouth and become ingrained. Is there any evidence to back up where we should buy? I have a hard enough time just finding one good breeder willing to ship my preferred breed. This is one of the reasons I put the Ohio Nationals on my bucket list.

changing the subject:
I am becoming a dual purpose guy and acknowledging that I am not truly productive in meat or eggs but trying to achieve a productive balance. I also am beginning to see that my goal "should be" to improve my breed of choice and not keep looking for the best dual purpose breed.

 

[Shellz]

Interesting plan!!  Looking forward to seeing the results. When will start hatching???

Thanks Arielle. I'm just waiting to hear from the Buckeye breeder when eggs will be available. I imagine March/April. I'd get chicks, but I bought a great new incubator last year.

 

[dfr1973]

changing the subject:
I am becoming a dual purpose guy and acknowledging that I am not truly productive in meat or eggs but trying to achieve a productive balance. I also am beginning to see that my goal "should be" to improve my breed of choice and not keep looking for the best dual purpose breed.

Welcome to the Dark Side!

So, which is your breed of choice?

 

[Shellz]

 It would be a lot less work and money to dub their combs. That is what I would do if I was happy with the birds I had.

Then if that is too problematic for you, Chanteclers were the Canadian solution to this problem. They have good combs for this already.

I certainly could, but I just don't have the stomach for it. I would if I could. The other issue I have with Malines, is that they're rare & I feel outcrossing will add some much needed vigor. Sure, I could just raise straight Buckeyes or Chanteclers, but in my research I've found they don't get up to the size of Malines. I think if I play my cards right, this cross will eventually give me what I want. A no fuss, sustainable meat bird that will lay better in winter.

 

[ocap]

Welcome to the Dark Side!

So, which is your breed of choice?

buff brahma large fowl with all of their inefficiency I still like to look at them.

 

[dfr1973]

with all of their inefficiency I still like to look at them.

I can certainly relate! Wyandottes are supposed to be fluffy-feathered beach balls on drum sticks. I am starting out only basketball-sized, and some fluffier than others.



A couple cute pics from a few minutes ago ... I went out to snap cute chick pics and hubby was standing there, coffee cup in hand, watching them bounce and cheep. Oh, those are Ideal's red broilers in with them.