BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[Turk Raphael]

Sorry...I forgot to mention that getting farm fresh brown eggs is very easy in this part of the country but they are not the same as collecting our own. I guess we're blessed to have them at all.

 

[LindaB220]

That is what I mean that we have access to genetics that we never did before. Nothing wrong with playing with a project like that. I have.

Most of the value would be on the male side, and sex linked males are a dime a dozen. They are quick growers even if they do not flesh out well.
What I mean by value on the male side, is all you would need is one, and he will contribute the laying genetics to whatever you put him on.

What I did, a good while ago, is took a silver male from a sex linked cross and put him on some single combed "Rhode Island Whites". They already were good layers of 220-240 large rich brown eggs. Their offspring were running around 240-260 extra large rich brown eggs. I did have the pullets on lights through their first winter. They were not good dual purpose birds, but were quick growers and great layers.

This was my first lesson on brassiness and gold leakage. I did not know then that I could use blue, black, or barred to clean it up. I went a couple generations before I realized I was getting no where.

You can also put one of those lighter framed quick growing males on a strain of large or extra large females. He will improve the laying in their offspring, they may very well be quick to mature, and be intermediate between the two sizes.

One thing to consider is that Fred had trouble along the way with genetic longevity issues. I did not with the cross I did, but I put one of the males on different birds. I did not continue within the same strain. These strains are built on putting a lot out fast, and that is all.

And you will never get them to perform as well as the original birds. Not without years of selection.

Another option is using the colored broilers. You stand a better chance of getting a female to live to laying age if you control the diet. I would prefer the black colored broilers and put a barred bird over them. What I would hope for is to produce some clean silvers within a couple generations.

There is all kinds of possibilities and projects, if someone wanted to play with something like that. When you consider al that is out there, genetically, the possibilities are endless. Concerning sex linked males, you can almost get them for free. No one wants them, but they have a lot to contribute.

If all you want is layers or meat birds, you can do whatever you want.

Yes, but the thing I found particularly interesting is that he tried other sex links and didn't have the success that ISA Brown's had. I think I'm going to go to Townline and get 15 SR and attempt to get pure white by F3. Then they stay white. Big birds that will caponize well.

 

[gjensen]

Yes, but the thing I found particularly interesting is that he tried other sex links and didn't have the success that ISA Brown's had. I think I'm going to go to Townline and get 15 SR and attempt to get pure white by F3. Then they stay white. Big birds that will caponize well.

There is no problem with getting to pure white with dominate white. Otherwise you will fight brassiness until the end of time, unless you outcross.

Fred eventually quit this project and one of the reasons was the health issues and longevity. You would be better off asking him, but that is what I understood him to say.

All of them will caponize well. Just know how much it costs to raise them.

Projects like this is fun. There is a lot to learn. I played with it. Nothing wrong with it. You start figuring out what you like and do not. What works and does not.

 

[LindaB220]

There is no problem with getting to pure white with dominate white. Otherwise you will fight brassiness until the end of time, unless you outcross.

Fred eventually quit this project and one of the reasons was the health issues and longevity. You would be better off asking him, but that is what I understood him to say.

All of them will caponize well. Just know how much it costs to raise them.

Projects like this is fun. There is a lot to learn. I played with it. Nothing wrong with it. You start figuring out what you like and do not. What works and does not.

Excellent point gjensen. I want to have fun. I don't plan to show, or sell a bunch of them. Just learn to do it and maybe pass the caponizing technique on to others down here in La.

 

[gjensen]

Depends what section you are looking at... Vantress red Cornish won in the FCR aspect .

Also you can avoid those dark pin feathers if you butcher at the right age. Chicks go through several set's of feathers and by butchering when a set is completely in there well be very,very few to none black spots.

The Vantress Red Cornish was not pure Cornish. That was the NH Cornish Cross.

What eventually one the pure breeds was a strain of White Rocks. Originally it was the NHs.

As we know the color white won out in the end, and it should have.

I think this time is interesting because it shows the period of transition. Where everything changed.

I never considered pin feathers and the stage of feathering. What I have dealt with is dark pin feathers at any stage. They do not bother me, and I can get them pretty clean. My mind is when it most cost effective to process them, and that they are still young enough to be tender. That is where my interest in faster maturing breeds comes from. The breeds that I am keeping do not have dark pin feathers. Both have a light under color.

 

[gjensen]

I wouldn't expect to see the USDA sponsor any thing in the way of the non-commercial breeds. . . guess we are on our own.

I have raised up a number of birds since getting into chickens. Most are not doing what I want . . .now that my goals have changed: from hatchery layers to heritage meat and a few eggs.

No of course they wouldn't. I have wished a group of hobbyist would do it.

I want both. Even if they are not up to modern Standards. I want NHs that are ready to process at 12-14wks (my view of ready t process is different than some) and lay 200 large eggs in their pullet year.

I am not sure on the Catalanas. I want to see what I have first. I will know better this year. I would like to see them near 220-240 and ready to process at similar time, but expecting less.

 

[Turk Raphael]

Excellent point gjensen. I want to have fun. I don't plan to show, or sell a bunch of them. Just learn to do it and maybe pass the caponizing technique on to others down here in La.

I don't think we are ready to do capons but we have bought and roasted them. They are so delicious! I'll be interested in seeing the video when it gets put up. I think we are going to get the 25 dark cornish cockerels from Cackle hatchery. They shouldn't need to be capons and should hold us over until we get the right deal on buckeyes. In the mean time I guess we will be eating a good bit of pork, beef and turkey. My partner loves beef tongue and I can deal with it on a cold sandwich, smothered in something.........Anything.

Sorry...there is supposed to be a good thread about fermented feed and I can't seem to find it. It is supposed to have the most information about the process. If someone could direct us to it, I would be grateful. From what I can figure, it's something like the process my grand pa did when making home brew or wine but I'm not sure about the specifics. Thanks in advance!

 

[LindaB220]

I don't think we are ready to do capons but we have bought and roasted them. They are so delicious! I'll be interested in seeing the video when it gets put up. I think we are going to get the 25 dark cornish cockerels from Cackle hatchery. They shouldn't need to be capons and should hold us over until we get the right deal on buckeyes. In the mean time I guess we will be eating a good bit of pork, beef and turkey. My partner loves beef tongue and I can deal with it on a cold sandwich, smothered in something.........Anything.

Sorry...there is supposed to be a good thread about fermented feed and I can't seem to find it. It is supposed to have the most information about the process. If someone could direct us to it, I would be grateful. From what I can figure, it's something like the process my grand pa did when making home brew or wine but I'm not sure about the specifics. Thanks in advance!

I've got what you need. Beekissed has several threads on fermenting feeds both for meat birds and layers. Tiktok essentially condensed what is said in the threads and has a fabulous FAQ sheet available. So good.

http://tikktok.wordpress.com/2014/04/13/fermented-feed-faq/

 

[call ducks]

Quote: Very true that it started as a cross, the Vantress red cornish is now a pure breeding line But I thought they had used a Red Cornish, and some form of Rock, though it's been a while since I have watched the COT video.

I think white has won over the commerical broilers, but when we look into rustic broilers, like Redbro's and Sasso's they continue to be coloured for a few reason but IMO the main one is so that the average person knows there is a difference between the two. However I am starting work on Light Sussex cock strain for my Sasso breeder hens.

My friend breeds Mistral Gris and recommends to her customers to butcher at 9 or 12 weeks because they in a good feather stage to butcher ( not sure if that well make sense to any others..)

 

[gjensen]

Very true that it started as a cross, the Vantress red cornish is now a pure breeding line But I thought they had used a Red Cornish, and some form of Rock, though it's been a while since I have watched the COT video.

I think white has won over the commerical broilers, but when we look into rustic broilers, like Redbro's and Sasso's they continue to be coloured for a few reason but IMO the main one is so that the average person knows there is a difference between the two. However I am starting work on Light Sussex cock strain for my Sasso breeder hens.

My friend breeds Mistral Gris and recommends to her customers to butcher at 9 or 12 weeks because they in a good feather stage to butcher ( not sure if that well make sense to any others..)

I do not doubt that. I was referring to what won the chicken of tomorrow contests way back then.

They did end up using a Rock cross. All of it was changing fast. Originally they did not perform as well (the whites), but that changed.

I am not stuck on the particulars of the process that they went through. It just interested me. Backyarders can do what they were doing and learn from it. Get some ideas. It is interesting to note the breeds they used, and what was more interesting to me was the breeds that they did not use. A lot of breeds touted for this purpose was not even a consideration for them. We rarely discuss the economy of it all. They knew what they had and what they were doing.

I think it also interesting to note that the "Indian Game" or Cornish came from the exhibition circle. It all boils down to genetics. There is a lot of pieces and parts out there.

I prefer birds with light under color as meat birds, not necessarily white birds. Of course there are some circles that prefer the colored broilers. I personally do not get worked up over it either way. It is a preference thing I guess. They sell what we want. Kind of like egg shell color. It really does not matter, but for some reason it does.

I would like to see a good dual purpose strain of Sussex with an emphasis on the carcass, but still lay reasonably well. I have a little collection of pictures of old light Sussex in England. I saved them because I like them. A flock of good Sussex with good type for the table is nice to see. Even if it is in an old picture.