BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[Turk Raphael]

Grandma had two big old surly dogs that kept everything away from her chickens but we have none. Those of you that keep livestock guardians...what breeds do you recommend?

Turk

I never have to worry about anything getting my chickens with this big guy around

He's 2 1/2 and never saw a chicken until he was 2 ( did grow up horses and 5 little kids around though). He went after a hen the first time we brought them out and the scolding he got was enough. Now he just lays down and watches everything. If someone gets out in the field too far he jumps up and herds them all back to where he wants them. I believe German Sheperds are the best dogs out there.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for responding. They are very good dogs.

 

[gjensen]

I like German Shepherds to. I have two, and both have been taught successfully that the birds are not toys. Coupled with a fence, the birds are in pretty good shape. Weasels and Hawks is the only threat that might get by them.

 

[Turk Raphael]

I may look into a GS pup. I see some BIG white dogs and jackasses on farms around here but I don't want any really big dog to deal with and surely don't want any jackasses!

I checked the paper and there's a litter of black GSDs out in the Okolona area. No price listed but I do like the solid black ones because they look very menacing to me.

Turk

But on the other hand...

 

[Joybelles]

Oh no, Turk. I am getting talked into getting a livestock guardian dog, but those teeth are making me think twice now! It does look like it would do a good job keeping predators at bay though. Someone told me great Pyrenees are good livestock guardians, I'm afraid that's all I can tell you at the moment. I'm still researching and reading.

 

[ameeks]

It's all in how you train them. German Sheperds are one of the most intelligent breeds. Personally I think they are #1 but I'm a little biased They are very versatile and quick to learn, that's why police and military love to use them. At the same time, even those dogs only attack on command. They have excellent sense smell and can hear EVERYTHING with those big ears. They are working dogs and MUST a have "job" to do and know exactly what that job is. A German Shepherd without a purpose is quick to turn destructive out of boredom. My Rocky boy herds anything and everything from kids, to horses, to chickens. He has a job and he knows what it is. You must make sure though that your dog knows you are dominant over him. My husband starting working with ours as Soon as we got him at 10 weeks old. Yes there are some bad raps and scary pictures of German Sheperds out there, but they really are awesome dogs. I'll never have anything else.

 

[Arielle]

Quote:

@Arielle Thanks for the Sugar Mtn blog tip. This is one of the first things I read and thought it was so interesting I thought I'd share for everyone to consider.

Concerning their layer flock:
In the winter we feed our poultry primarily meat – something we have – since the deep snows make other foods inaccessible. In the warm months they eat insects (their primary job), grubs, worms, break apart manure patties and eat plants (grass, clover, etc). I don’t have a number for you on birds per acre since we don’t operate that way. We have had as many as 400 layers in a flock fanning out about 500 to 700 feet from their central roosting spot. Some also sleep in trees. If you used a 500′ diameter circle it would come to 20 acres for 400 birds or about 20 birds per acre. Hmm… that does not sound right as I do not think they were ranging across that much space. So much for back of the napkin scratchings. The area they cover is not perfectly circular. Based on what I know of our field sizes I would say that they were ranging over more like seven to ten acres so about 40 birds per acre. That’s about 1,000 sq-ft per bird over the warm months and is sustainable with them co-grazing with other animals. Take that with a grain of salt or two. It will vary with your climate, soil, etc, etc.

Perhaps numbers and info not news to many of you but I thought it interesting and of note that this is a successful laying flock subsisting mainly on forage and what sounds to be copious amount of meat. Thought it might generate some conversation.

M

For those that HAven't read the blog-- this is a hog raising facility. Grass fed. THe chickens furnish extra protein for the young piglets prior to weaning and heading out to pasture.

THis man is facing the expense of making his own slaughter facility and is doing it without a loan-- the funding is from the hog business. A long project that is about 5 years of construction. So many many many hoops to jump thru to meet butchering for the public requirements.

He helped me to understand the beneits of processing my own stock; and the cost of buying "fast food" vis the few processing plants left int he US. It opened my eyes. IT is my understanding that about 5 plants process all the beef we eat-- that really scares me. NO competition. AND the possibility of a contamination is far reaching== and I was proved right wen just a few weeks ago a boat load of ground beef was recalled due to comtamaination. THe plus side is that my youngest saw this on the news and gave me the heads up. I was able to re-assure him that with proper cooking temperatures the bad bacteria is killed. I think that made him feel better. One more reason to support the small facilites. "we are going to He!! in a hen basket" comes to mind-- but it leaves me wondering was a silly phrase!

Oh no, Turk. I am getting talked into getting a livestock guardian dog, but those teeth are making me think twice now! It does look like it would do a good job keeping predators at bay though. Someone told me great Pyrenees are good livestock guardians, I'm afraid that's all I can tell you at the moment. I'm still researching and reading.

a smaller version is the maremma. Just different sides of the mountain. Less food to feed. Not sure how they deal witht he warmer climes as htey are mountain dogs. THe white coloring is reflective, so maybe it would do ok. Loved my rotties-- quiet dogs until needed. Move swiftly and dead silent. ALL DOGS NEED TRAINING!!

SOme of the issues encountered here in my area is that people are stupid and the laws confine the dogs preventling them from doing their jobs-- very frustrating. THese are town to town laws, slowly pushing out the farming and big house owners now running things.

 

[Arielle]

It's all in how you train them. German Sheperds are one of the most intelligent breeds. Personally I think they are #1 but I'm a little biased

They are very versatile and quick to learn, that's why police and military love to use them. At the same time, even those dogs only attack on command. They have excellent sense smell and can hear EVERYTHING with those big ears. They are working dogs and MUST a have "job" to do and know exactly what that job is. A German Shepherd without a purpose is quick to turn destructive out of boredom. My Rocky boy herds anything and everything from kids, to horses, to chickens. He has a job and he knows what it is. You must make sure though that your dog knows you are dominant over him. My husband starting working with ours as Soon as we got him at 10 weeks old. Yes there are some bad raps and scary pictures of German Sheperds out there, but they really are awesome dogs. I'll never have anything else.

I look for breeds that have centuries of working with people -- maremmas and the LGD function independently and as such act on their own without permission which is exactly how they work. Mostly out in large tracts of land completely on their own. I prefer the bird dogs and other "working dogs" that must sit and and wait for a command. Look at the job a dog was bred for to tell his suitablitly for a job; I dont have hounds and terriers and not toy fru-frus. I need a dog I can trust to do his job when I am not there AND follow my commands instantly. IMO few dogs can function as a LGD.

 

[seventreesfarm]

Our place is small enough that we have the whole perimeter fenced - house yard with wood and 2x4 wire, garden and livestock area with cattle panel and hot wire. There is some cross fencing with field fence, hotwire, or non-electric plastic mesh w/step-in posts.

We have 2 dogs right now, a huge shepherd/rottweiler cross and his corgi buddy. They aren't allowed loose where the chickens and sheep are, but when we let chickens in the houseyard, the dogs give way to them. We train them as puppies not to menace cats or chickens and will rehome any dog that does. The big dog was great at herding cattle when we had some, just seemed to do it instinctively. He seems to think sheep are more for biting though.

We're about to add a rottweiler puppy, since the big guy is getting older and tireder. We go more for protection breeds with some livestock background, since we need a guard dog for two-legged varmints as well as four-legged.

Just having the dogs around has worked to keep coyotes and raccoons out. We trained them to chase any possums (and squirrels) that come in the yard, and so far they haven't tangled with any skunks that hide out in the neighbors' woodlot.

I rotate my flocks through smaller grazing paddocks, and keep them narrow enough and with some cover that the eagles and hawks don't want to risk swooping down.

 

[3riverschick]

What astonishes me about these breeds is that...tho they are so huge, they do so well with the poultry! Amazing!

http://www.rdranch.net/anatolian.html
http://www.marblepeaks.com/livestock-guardian-dogs.html
http://www.cobankopegi.com/

http://www.maremmaclub.com/faq.html
http://stoneybrookworkingdogs.com/
http://maremmaclub.com/maremmabreeders.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akbash_Dog
http://sirechofarm.com/lgd.htm

 

[gjensen]

Many dogs can do well keeping unwanted critters off of the property, to include humans.

Not every dog is right for every one. The personality of the one keeping the dog is as relevant as the personality of the dog. It is kind of like a marriage. It is real good when it is good, and real bad when it is bad. It is a long term commitment.

There were many dogs that were used as general purpose farm dogs before the livestock guardian dogs became a fad. There are a lot of options. What you need is aware, a stable personality, and a protective instinct. Then decide on one that you feel comfortable with.

Many will want to play with the livestock in their youth. They have to be taught not to, and we cannot be afraid to hurt their feelings. We have to counter the instinct. I can 100% trust my dogs with my birds all day and night. I can also trust family member's dogs with my birds. They have learned as well. They also know that I am in charge, and when I say no, I mean no. Some dogs have stronger wills than others, and the keeper has to have an appropriate strength of will. It is real simple, but I am surprised by the amount of people that cannot control their own dogs.

My daughter has a new dog, and this dog will be more of a challenge to teach. They do not have control of him, so I am not likely to be successful in a random visit here and there.

The livestock guardian dogs can be great for what they are intended to do. Some are better suited for different settings and different owners than others. There may be none better than a good Anatolian Shepherd, but they are not for everyone. They are not only very large, but very athletic. If that switch goes off to protect, you might not be able to turn them around. Normal fencing will not contain them. It might require a 6' fence, and they are not beyond digging under a fence. They are not for everyone, but they can keep up with a large area and are serious about what they do.

Also just because they are a livestock guardian dog, does not mean they have an interest in protecting chickens. Many instinctively do better with sheep and goats. Birds are not in their history. Not saying they cannot do well, because many do. It is just is not a guarantee.

Birds should be locked up in secure housing at night, so all you really need is something to keep the critters away. A lot of dogs can do that. A large barking dog, generally keeps that in check.

The sky is the limit concerning choices.