BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[bnjrob]

I get it, it makes sense on paper but I wonder if we were to compare 3lbs to 3lbs. 3lbs on a standard bird is stretched out over a large frame where as 3lbs of bantam flesh would be more compactly distributed and therefore of greater quality. At least that's what I assume and of course my interest is meat. For us the eggs are a bonus and the medium for more birds to grow out. But does it take a bantam the same amount of time to get to 3lbs as it would a standard to get to 6lbs? Or are growth rates similar. Perhaps the cost in raising would be almost the same if that was the case.
Of course, if we're just talking eggs for home use then I think bantams are kind of cool.

Just pondering aloud, not really expecting real answers. I did go hunting bantams though as the only pictures I'd seen are of bantam cochins and seramas (no thanks) and I came across this fellow~ tell me that doesn't make a proper meal! Bantam (cuckoo?) Dorking in the UK.

M

which begs the question, at least for me~ how does one make a bantam if they're not a bantam breed? Just use the smaller stock?

One thing I wouldn't like about bantams is the egg size. Some recipes are amenable to using more of the smaller eggs to approximate a medium/large egg. But other recipes don't always do so well when you're trying to use smaller eggs. I have tried to adapt some recipes using the small pullet eggs we get every year with new hatches - it was troublesome and just easier to use the first small pullet eggs as scrambled eggs and not use them in an actual recipe. I wouldn't want to have smaller sized eggs all the time.

I know of someone that made a bantam Java by crossing with a bantam of another breed. From what I hear, he is still trying to get it to have more consistency in looking like a smaller version of the large fowl. That would be the faster way to get the size down. But if someone was wanting to get a bantam version of a large fowl and still retain the look of the large fowl, there would be a lot of work to do to try to keep the small size while breeding out the unwanted characteristics of the bantam used.

For some reference of that 3 lb weight - we butchered 4 Java cockerels this week. They were 5 months old and were on the runty side compared to others from the same hatch. They dressed out from 3 lb 5 oz to 3 lb 11 oz. Usually we don't butcher them this young unless they have obvious flaws - these guys were smaller and some had comb side sprigs, so we went ahead and thinned the flock earlier than we usually do.

 

[Turk Raphael]

I did not take that as Sassy. It is a good point. I was comparing costs to maintain the flock as a whole. That matters. Let's say that you have two kids, and a partner. You eat two dozen eggs per week, and could eat three. You only need 6 good layers to meet that need, but you want the flock to be "self sustaining". Six layers is not deep enough to do it. 12 will carry you "twice" as long. The difference is 3/4 lb. per day, or almost 300 lbs. per year for 12 layers. Still more than enough eggs.


It is just another way to look at it. I am not suggesting the project, really. Just food for thought. The hatchery bantams are already too large. Bantam Cornish x Bantam NHs would be something that someone could do. Less housing, less space, less feed for the flock as a whole, etc. When we have the money to spend on the birds, we see it one way, but if we didn't our priorities would change.

I admire the Thai Game Fowl to. I have long considered picking up a couple pairs. I still do.

I have a weakness for the Asian birds as well but aside from them being a 'complication' I fear our occasional hellaciously cold winters would be a blight on them but the Buckeyes (and so many other great birds) can handle very cold, even though our chicken house is a dandy. My only complaint about is that my grand pa was a mason and he used block, brick, rock and of course cement with every building project and that gives us a concrete floor. Easy to clean but it does present it's own set of problems.

 

[Turk Raphael]

Here is a very interesting post by Jeff lay, well known breeder and exhibitor of the Buckeye chicken breed. I found it very interesting and can see where it seems to 'dove-tail' with a few of the post on here in the last few days. I hope all find it interesting and note worthy.

Post # 2500



https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/803253/the-buckeye-thread/2490

 

[Arielle]

Quote: Egg production is important if you want a self sustaining line. I don't expect a super meat producer like the DC to match the RIR, but I do expect a reasonable number of eggs 3 a week. IMO the SQ are no longer good layers because that trait was not kept up or perhaps the lines are too inbred. I just know that Walt LEonard told me they were not good layers.

Keep us posted on the DC. This is another bird I have been interested. Particularly the red laced ones are eye candy. lol

The WLR are very pretty. The hens especially. What I find the most attractive about the hatchery Cornish is the tight, glossy feathers; dark or wlr.
Apparently the hatch DC are darn good layers, like 4-5 eggs/week, brood like queens and go native and live pretty much off of foraging in warm months. Specifically the MM ones.

My logic says that most lines at a hatchery will be good layers as that is a way for a business to eek out a bit more profit. While I can appreciate the show birds, productin is first for me. Of course if Walt had bred a giant cornish the size of that handmade trophy I would most certainly get a 3 foot bird-- cant imagine any coyote would mess with it!! lol

Quote: THank you G for explaining this-- I was wondering where you were going with that suggestion.

I myself really hate the processing part and combine that with big hands getting into the cavity on a small bird is annoying and often prevents a thorough clenaing out. My favorite is a turkey to process. While I can only do ne bird in the time I can do 2-3 chickens, I get 2-3 chickens worth of meat and only suffer thru one cull.

 

[southernmomma]

Quote:
That's a pretty persuasive reason.

M

 

[LindaB220]

Here is a very interesting post by Jeff lay, well known breeder and exhibitor of the Buckeye chicken breed. I found it very interesting and can see where it seems to 'dove-tail' with a few of the post on here in the last few days. I hope all find it interesting and note worthy.

Post # 2500



https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/803253/the-buckeye-thread/2490

Nice to hear it first hand.

 

[Turk Raphael]

Nice to hear it first hand.

Essentially, two members who are well respected in the fancy agree on the more salient points of the STANDARD yet they might be considered to be form opposite poles by some of the wannabees..

There has often been a call for experienced breeders to comment on certain points in this thread and one just did...by proxy.

 

[LindaB220]

Ok, so I've been having computer problems. What excuse do the rest of you have for not posting? I thought I'd miss dozens of posts. Glad to be back. So the 20 CX that were supposed to be delivered from a group order did not happen. The lady that was going down to Baton Rouge to pick them up fizzled out, then the chicks came in. Dead. 51 out of 125 are barely hanging on. Christina in Baton Rouge said she will get a full refund on all but she is out some bucks. I paid up front too. Bummer.

 

[seventreesfarm]

Ok, so I've been having computer problems. What excuse do the rest of you have for not posting? I thought I'd miss dozens of posts. Glad to be back. So the 20 CX that were supposed to be delivered from a group order did not happen. The lady that was going down to Baton Rouge to pick them up fizzled out, then the chicks came in. Dead. 51 out of 125 are barely hanging on. Christina in Baton Rouge said she will get a full refund on all but she is out some bucks. I paid up front too. Bummer.

Oh bummer indeed!

We just got our new Rottweiler puppy Tuesday, so all our plans went out the window. Haven't had a baby in 8 years, and it's a lot of constant work. My 2 parrots are having stress issues from being woken up all night with puppy stuff. I also have 40 eggs hatching this weekend, plus older chicks need wrangling. The strawberries have been going gangbusters, so between puppy potty training and full time job, I'm picking and freezing strawberries. Aaaaand now the raspberries are coming on. Not to mention all the weeds in my 4500 sq. ft. garden. Etc etc etc.

So all the pictures of my pullets are still sitting in my camera

What's hilarious is that my poor long-suffering partner actually said she is looking forward to when our brown leghorn pullets start laying, so we can experiment with marans and ameraucana crosses. Next spring. I just bid on some really nice looking ameraucana eggs, and that will be our last hatch of the season. I'll be playing with the chicken calculator all winter

 

[seventreesfarm]

Here is a very interesting post by Jeff lay, well known breeder and exhibitor of the Buckeye chicken breed. I found it very interesting and can see where it seems to 'dove-tail' with a few of the post on here in the last few days. I hope all find it interesting and note worthy.

Post # 2500



https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/803253/the-buckeye-thread/2490

I hope breeders of all the old timey chickens start working on productivity as well as looks. One cool thing about the interwebs is that old timey information like the Call of the Hen are available, along with current experience with using those methods. People don't have to be stuck with hatchery birds or useless pretty show birds.