BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[ronott1]

I've managed to open a can of worms that gets discussed ad nauseum all over this forum. Personally I'm more interested in the process than anything else right now. Management and culling and decision making are things I want to nail down before I go investing in someone elses passion and time. I've screwed up a couple of times in just this last year. Besides, it will always result in eggs and meat!!

Thanks for the input everyone

Cheers
M

Yes, I have seen this discussion a lot too but this one was the nicest in tone and respect of everyone's ideas

Awesome!

 

[southernmomma]

I agree Ron. I should thank you, by the way~ I have thought about that pretty speckled pene egg several times. (I never thought I cared about egg color but it's one of those things I've changed my mind about, lol) and tonight I finally pulled the trigger and ordered some Welsummers. Hatchery, but a start, and I managed to dodge the multi-breed bullet Perhaps if I'm lucky I will have a hen gift me a dark speckled egg and I can have something to work towards.

My son is happy I wont fool with "his" birds and I can finally relax and start to enjoy the process and learning.

M

 

[ronott1]

I agree Ron. I should thank you, by the way~ I have thought about that pretty speckled pene egg several times. (I never thought I cared about egg color but it's one of those things I've changed my mind about, lol) and tonight I finally pulled the trigger and ordered some Welsummers. Hatchery, but a start, and I managed to dodge the multi-breed bullet Perhaps if I'm lucky I will have a hen gift me a dark speckled egg and I can have something to work towards.

My son is happy I wont fool with "his" birds and I can finally relax and start to enjoy the process and learning.

M

Wellsummers are very nice, you will like them.

 

[bmvf]

My hatch is underway, if you recall I set 42 eggs 3 weeks ago. I was concerned about my pre-incubation storage issues and collecting in extremely cold weather. They started hatching 20 hours ago yesterday on day 22, so far 7 have hatched.

I incubated these eggs in a different room than I did my last hatch in September. The room is very warm, but very dry. It's the storage room behind my milk house which houses my furnace, milk vacuum pump among other things. I had a terrible time with humidity near the end. Adding water to the bottom of the incubator would keep humidity up for a few hours, then I'd have to add it again when humidity dropped to 30% or even lower. Could the sudden variation in humidity cause poor hatches?

 

[Arielle]

Quote: THis is what amazed me geroge, he kept selecting for what I am assuming are 24hour layers. I have no reason to doubt him; he said he was just fooling around. A challenge to keeep a long time skilled breeder interested in his stock I guess. Says that flocks can be pushed toward 24 hour ccycles if some one wants to put in the effort. Obviously this is not a criteria in a commercial operation where eggs are collected as soon as layed, and hens dont have far to go, and certainly not out to freerange. I cant begin to tell you where I find eggs around the farm--- buckets, under rock overhangs, under pallets . . . the girls sure like quiet, safe darkish locations they can squeeze into!!

I've managed to open a can of worms that gets discussed ad nauseum all over this forum. Personally I'm more interested in the process than anything else right now. Management and culling and decision making are things I want to nail down before I go investing in someone elses passion and time. I've screwed up a couple of times in just this last year. Besides, it will always result in eggs and meat!!

Thanks for the input everyone

Cheers
M

ALways a good thing to discuss as positions can change. As for mistakes, that can happen to anyone. It is part of learning and part of life. I have seen horses ranked at graded shows and wonder why . . .. and these are pros. IMO dont be in a rush to make a dicision. Or at least one that forever removes an animal from the breeding pool until you have thought about it for a while and feel certain. At least this is how I work . .. lol

My hatch is underway, if you recall I set 42 eggs 3 weeks ago. I was concerned about my pre-incubation storage issues and collecting in extremely cold weather. They started hatching 20 hours ago yesterday on day 22, so far 7 have hatched.

I incubated these eggs in a different room than I did my last hatch in September. The room is very warm, but very dry. It's the storage room behind my milk house which houses my furnace, milk vacuum pump among other things. I had a terrible time with humidity near the end. Adding water to the bottom of the incubator would keep humidity up for a few hours, then I'd have to add it again when humidity dropped to 30% or even lower. Could the sudden variation in humidity cause poor hatches?

Keep us posted!!!! Yes the variation in humidity could effect the drying of the membranes but look at it this way . . what if you didnt refill the wells?? It is ok to quickly add water-- I do. Not opening the incubator during hatching is not a limitation that experienced hatchers follow. I can think of a few people that go in as needed-- including me.

 

[RedRidge]

So here's an interesting cull option... has anyone ever considered culling for ground layers? I haven't, but have considered it. It drives me crazy to have to find eggs scattered in nooks and crannies on the ground when plenty of nest boxes are provided. I also have on hen who prefers laying wherever the wood ash dust pile is.

 

[ocap]

So here's an interesting cull option... has anyone ever considered culling for ground layers? I haven't, but have considered it. It drives me crazy to have to find eggs scattered in nooks and crannies on the ground when plenty of nest boxes are provided. I also have on hen who prefers laying wherever the wood ash dust pile is.

I had a ground layer in their winter quarters, moved all my australorps to chicken tractors with wider nest boxes and the ground laying stopped. I hope the change in habit continues..........
I wonder what your hen would do if you put ashes in one of the nest boxes. ;-)

 

[gjensen]

THis is what amazed me geroge, he kept selecting for what I am assuming are 24hour layers. I have no reason to doubt him; he said he was just fooling around. A challenge to keeep a long time skilled breeder interested in his stock I guess. Says that flocks can be pushed toward 24 hour ccycles if some one wants to put in the effort. Obviously this is not a criteria in a commercial operation where eggs are collected as soon as layed, and hens dont have far to go, and certainly not out to freerange. I cant begin to tell you where I find eggs around the farm--- buckets, under rock overhangs, under pallets . . . the girls sure like quiet, safe darkish locations they can squeeze into!!

ALways a good thing to discuss as positions can change. As for mistakes, that can happen to anyone. It is part of learning and part of life. I have seen horses ranked at graded shows and wonder why . . .. and these are pros. IMO dont be in a rush to make a dicision. Or at least one that forever removes an animal from the breeding pool until you have thought about it for a while and feel certain. At least this is how I work . .. lol

Keep us posted!!!! Yes the variation in humidity could effect the drying of the membranes but look at it this way . . what if you didnt refill the wells?? It is ok to quickly add water-- I do. Not opening the incubator during hatching is not a limitation that experienced hatchers follow. I can think of a few people that go in as needed-- including me.

It requires roughly 25 hour intervals between eggs. At 10am today, would at least be 11am tomorrow.

The rate of lay is largely the time interval between eggs.

 

[gjensen]

So here's an interesting cull option... has anyone ever considered culling for ground layers? I haven't, but have considered it. It drives me crazy to have to find eggs scattered in nooks and crannies on the ground when plenty of nest boxes are provided. I also have on hen who prefers laying wherever the wood ash dust pile is.

I have never considered it. I always believed it to be a behavior issue. There are social issues we are not aware of etc.

I think part of the trick, is that the laying boxes be the most ideal laying space in the enclosure. If they can have a dark secure place to lay on the ground, they will often prefer it. The nooks and crannies that you describe might be as preferable to the birds as the laying boxes provided. If there are spots they see as good as the boxes, they may choose other than the boxes.

I have come to prefer my nesting boxes to be near ground level for this reason, and it eliminates some other issues like roosting in the nest box etc. If I site the nesting boxes near the ground, and hang a partial curtain over the boxes (making the holes darker than any other spot in the enclosure), generally I eliminate the problem.

Recently, I remade the mistake of installing nest boxes as high as the roost in a couple mobile pens. Now I have a ground layer, and a couple hens wanting to roost in the nest boxes. I will lose floor space by dropping them, so I intend to make the perch operable. Then I can close them in the evening until I have the habit broke. I am going to adjust the pen to let more winter light in, and hope to realize the hen choosing to lay in the darkest most secure place again.

I have never not been able to correct the problem, but it has always required changes or adjustments on my part. That isn't to say that every now and then I may find one on the ground, but very rarely as a habit. It might mean I need another nest box.

 

[Kev]

I have never considered it. I always believed it to be a behavior issue. There are social issues we are not aware of etc.

I think part of the trick, is that the laying boxes be the most ideal laying space in the enclosure. If they can have a dark secure place to lay on the ground, they will often prefer it. The nooks and crannies that you describe might be as preferable to the birds as the laying boxes provided. If there are spots they see as good as the boxes, they may choose other than the boxes.

I have come to prefer my nesting boxes to be near ground level for this reason, and it eliminates some other issues like roosting in the nest box etc. If I site the nesting boxes near the ground, and hang a partial curtain over the boxes (making the holes darker than any other spot in the enclosure), generally I eliminate the problem.

Recently, I remade the mistake of installing nest boxes as high as the roost in a couple mobile pens. Now I have a ground layer, and a couple hens wanting to roost in the nest boxes. I will lose floor space by dropping them, so I intend to make the perch operable. Then I can close them in the evening until I have the habit broke. I am going to adjust the pen to let more winter light in, and hope to realize the hen choosing to lay in the darkest most secure place again.

I have never not been able to correct the problem, but it has always required changes or adjustments on my part. That isn't to say that every now and then I may find one on the ground, but very rarely as a habit. It might mean I need another nest box.

I believe this to be spot on as my experience has been the same.

Yet almost universally, the suggested nest box construction shows rather open nest boxes with practically the bare minimum lips on the front.. can you tell me why this is so?

I have noticed the hens seem to really like nests with high lips they have to high step over and affords them a chance to 'hunch down out of sight' once they are settled down on the nest. I use covered cat litter boxes for this reason and for ease for moving broody hens to isolation pens. High lips, high privacy. Never have floor layers in pens with those things.