BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[gjensen]

You assume that I am upset with you. I am not. You have simply not shown me evidence of why you are adamant that some sort of stress is not a cause. You and I both know that for every study out there, you will find one or more studies that contradict the first study. It's up to the individual person to determine what information holds merit and then they can act accordingly . I know what I have found in my research and have made an opinion based on that information, as you obviously have based on your research.

You assume that I am upset with you. I am not. You have simply not shown me evidence of why you are adamant that some sort of stress is not a cause. You and I both know that for every study out there, you will find one or more studies that contradict the first study. It's up to the individual person to determine what information holds merit and then they can act accordingly . I know what I have found in my research and have made an opinion based on that information, as you obviously have based on your research.

LOL. I never said that I thought you were upset with me. Where was that at?

The burden of proof, as I stated, is to prove that stress causes blood spots. Not the other way around. It doesn't work that way. Anyone can make any wild claim that is hypothetical and say prove me wrong.

Speculation is not evidence. It is assuming that it could be a cause. I provided evidence and a demonstration on how blood spots are made. Please show me how stress causes this to happen. I did my part, and produced evidence. I would like to see the evidence that you are referring to. I could be convinced otherwise, and I like to learn. You have known me long enough to know that I need more than because someone says so. I am a doubting Thomas. Now, if evidence is provided, I would have appreciated learning something new.

The good thing about having been shown to be wrong, is that I would not have to continue being wrong.

I enjoy debating, but not chickens. They are not that complicated. LOL. Not to mention that this is not a good format for it. I have some friends that I debate a couple subjects with online. They are not arguments, and it is among friends. Every now and then, I have to concede a point, and I learn something. I always benefit from that exchange. I do not gain from what I already have. It is what I do not have that I need and want. That is why we do it. We are all pushed and challenged.

Now the good thing about this discussion between you and I is that anyone that bothers to watch the video will see how blood spots are made. If you can provide your evidence, then they will have learned even more. I would have myself.

 

[gjensen]

The eggs are collected daily. We had below freezing temps since new years day up until this week so we've had frozen yokes from time to time.

I'm thinking I'd like to trap nest and get some data including bloody eggs.

Like I said, I need to come up with a system to grow out these males. It's not hard separating the sexes, but it doesn't get done if I need to rig up a pen for them at the time I need to separate them.

Just candle them. Your eggs are not too dark. You have to roll the eggs not to confuse them with specks on the shell. Use a good miniature flashlight with the LED bulbs. They are surprisingly bright for such a small size. You can illuminate the entire interior. I like these better than those made for the purpose.

It is not as easy as it would be with white eggs. It just takes a little time. Going through 50 eggs is not fun, but it would be worth it in a couple years. Do not set any eggs with them.

If the egg contents freeze, this can cause interior quality problems. I do not have to worry about that down here. Thankfully. Eggs left out too long in 100 degree heat can though. They age fast in high heat.

ETA: If you can trap nest practically, it has a host of advantages.

 

[gjensen]

bmvf, perhaps this link will be helpful. http://www.thepoultrysite.com/publications/1/egg-quality-handbook/30/watery-whites

This will be a little better than taking my word for it.

 

[ronott1]

bmvf, perhaps this link will be helpful. http://www.thepoultrysite.com/publications/1/egg-quality-handbook/30/watery-whites

This will be a little better than taking my word for it.

Thanks George!

 

[bnjrob]

LOL. I never said that I thought you were upset with me. Where was that at?

The burden of proof, as I stated, is to prove that stress causes blood spots. Not the other way around. It doesn't work that way. Anyone can make any wild claim that is hypothetical and say prove me wrong.

Speculation is not evidence. It is assuming that it could be a cause. I provided evidence and a demonstration on how blood spots are made. Please show me how stress causes this to happen. I did my part, and produced evidence. I would like to see the evidence that you are referring to. I could be convinced otherwise, and I like to learn. You have known me long enough to know that I need more than because someone says so. I am a doubting Thomas. Now, if evidence is provided, I would have appreciated learning something new.

The good thing about having been shown to be wrong, is that I would not have to continue being wrong.

I enjoy debating, but not chickens. They are not that complicated. LOL. Not to mention that this is not a good format for it. I have some friends that I debate a couple subjects with online. They are not arguments, and it is among friends. Every now and then, I have to concede a point, and I learn something. I always benefit from that exchange. I do not gain from what I already have. It is what I do not have that I need and want. That is why we do it. We are all pushed and challenged.

Now the good thing about this discussion between you and I is that anyone that bothers to watch the video will see how blood spots are made. If you can provide your evidence, then they will have learned even more. I would have myself.

You told me to relax - indicating you felt that I was upset for some reason. I'm not upset, I just don't agree with your statement.

As I said, I know where blood spots come from. I don't dispute the obvious source of blood spots. But there is more going on in my mind and I have a feeling I know where the disconnect is between us and I think we're looking at two different things. But I can't give you the years of education I have that helped me form my opinion on this issue in a few forum postings. And it is not important to me whether or not you agree with me. So let's just leave it as we don't agree and that's ok.

 

[Our Roost]

Well, lets move on now to breeding for production--- eggs and or meat. I just purchased some very nice bielefelder stock and will be crossing these with my blue orpingtons next spring. I really think this is an excellent mix for progeny and meat. Add the fact that they are both good egg layers and grow reasonably fast to table weight. Bielefelders are sexable at birth and I hope I can transfer this trait. I am breeding belgium malines this spring and hope to acquire some izegemse. This is another future cross if all goes well.

 

[gjensen]

You told me to relax - indicating you felt that I was upset for some reason. I'm not upset, I just don't agree with your statement.

As I said, I know where blood spots come from. I don't dispute the obvious source of blood spots. But there is more going on in my mind and I have a feeling I know where the disconnect is between us and I think we're looking at two different things. But I can't give you the years of education I have that helped me form my opinion on this issue in a few forum postings. And it is not important to me whether or not you agree with me. So let's just leave it as we don't agree and that's ok.

All I need is evidence to change my mind.

 

[gjensen]

Well, lets move on now to breeding for production--- eggs and or meat. I just purchased some very nice bielefelder stock and will be crossing these with my blue orpingtons next spring. I really think this is an excellent mix for progeny and meat. Add the fact that they are both good egg layers and grow reasonably fast to table weight. Bielefelders are sexable at birth and I hope I can transfer this trait. I am breeding belgium malines this spring and hope to acquire some izegemse. This is another future cross if all goes well.

Why do you think that the two breeds will be an excellent cross?

What kind of improvement do you expect or hope for?

How long do they take to reach table weights? What are these weights? Where are each now?

What to you is a good layer? How many do they lay per year?

How much do the adult birds eat per day? How much does it cost per pound to get them where you like them? How many pounds of feed does it cost to get them to POL? When is point of lay?

Why do you think you will be able to "transfer" the ability to sex the chicks from the Bielefelders? How do plan to you accomplish this?

I like to hear how people are going about their business, and what their goals are. I like to hear numbers. Not an elementary 4 eggs per week etc. I cannot get any information like that. I like to hear that I saw such and such weights at this point, in this season, with this feed etc. I like to read about people actually breeding and what they are trying to do. What their challenges and problems are. What progress has been made?

You are right. It would be nice to get to this.

 

[Our Roost]

I will answer you in the morning, right now I am going to bed. Sleep well!

 

[bmvf]

bmvf, perhaps this link will be helpful. http://www.thepoultrysite.com/publications/1/egg-quality-handbook/30/watery-whites

This will be a little better than taking my word for it.

Thanks for the link. Looking at the picture, my eggs don't look that flat!

I got this idea of watery eggs from a link I checked out last night on Yahoo. The title said something like white eggs versus brown eggs. So I was curious to see what they said. It all checked out okay when they said there wasn't any difference. Seems it was a typical Yahoo title that grabs your attention! But the article did mention something about watery whites and that those eggs get a B grade. It peaked my curiosity.

I know ammonia could start to be a problem if it isn't already. They have been in the same 12 x 6 pen since November although it's very well ventilated.