BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

I have often wondered how many heritage breeders use heritage breeding knowledge and methods.... in the show... for the show I can breed anything to anything and call it what I want if it impresses the judges.... breeding for breed is allot different...

"the standard of excellence is not fixed by economic usefulness; the judges simply follow the fashion, and fashions in show animals change in just the same way as fashions in ladies' dresses."
"Animal Breeding" A. L. Hagedoorn

Keith
 
I have often wondered how many heritage breeders use heritage breeding knowledge and methods.... in the show... for the show I can breed anything to anything and call it what I want if it impresses the judges.... breeding for breed is allot different...

"the standard of excellence is not fixed by economic usefulness; the judges simply follow the fashion, and fashions in show animals change in just the same way as fashions in ladies' dresses."
"Animal Breeding" A. L. Hagedoorn

Keith

Yet the SOP outlines how productive a breed should be. The measurements listed in the SOP for a breed, is in turn directly related to production. The breed will produce the best, provided the genetic production material is there, to fit the form.

Chickens are chickens, only type and production really separate one breed form another imo. All we have to go off of is the SOP of the breed. If a chicken looks like a crevecoeur but has large bones, stringy meat, and blue eggs, is it a crevecoeur?
 
What is the old saying "like produces like" when breeding for "economic usefulness" it is best to have all your males the same size all females the same size.. have them grow at the same rate and start to lay at the same time.... how many breeders look for these things... ?

Keith
SC
 
Show me some pictures of a specific chicken breed that is perfect to the standards. There is no such thing as a perfect chicken. Its a Standard to breed for with guidelines of what's expected and nothing more except evaluation. JMO. Hey! whats the specs on your chicken?
 
What is the old saying "like produces like" when breeding for "economic usefulness" it is best to have all your males the same size all females the same size.. have them grow at the same rate and start to lay at the same time.... how many breeders look for these things... ?

Keith
SC
I couldn't answer that. Certainly seems very impractical for most to start, but that's what we are all striving for I believe.
 
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Yet the SOP outlines how productive a breed should be. The measurements listed in the SOP for a breed, is in turn directly related to production. The breed will produce the best, provided the genetic production material is there, to fit the form.

Chickens are chickens, only type and production really separate one breed form another imo. All we have to go off of is the SOP of the breed. If a chicken looks like a crevecoeur but has large bones, stringy meat, and blue eggs, is it a crevecoeur?

A breed should look as it should, and do as it should. A leghorn that looks perfect and lays brown eggs is not a leghorn. I will agree with that.

The Standard defines a breed type, and historically, we understood the role of that type. The Standard is unable to define specifically what a bird should do. I wish that it did, or at least provided minimums. It does describe production characteristics generally under "Economic Qualities".

I believe in a form/function relationship. IMO neither follow neither, and there is an inter relationship of sorts. Equipped to perform does not equal performance. Some will perform well in spite of equipment, but usually lack durability and longevity. Commercially, livability is measured in %, they do have good rates, but are never evaluated after two years. They are dog food by then.

It is a mistake to imply that good type necessarily equals good performance. The genetics concerning performance is varied. There is a lot that comes together to make a good bird good. It is also a mistake to say that type does not matter. It does. Anyone that has spent any amount of time handling commercial layers notices a uniformity of type even in between strains. There is an actual ideal laying type.

So I would disagree when it is said that the SOP outlines how productive a breed should be. All it does (and all it intends to do) is define breed type and character. It was and always has been up to the breeders to select for utility. And they did. These breeds were very commercial in their own time.

"Chickens are chickens". Of course they are all chickens. Much separates the breeds though, and it is not just "production". Some were never considered utility, and always have been ornamental. Then performance for some breeds was very competitive. The English Games, Aseels, Shamos etc. Each with their own type for their own style. They each thrived in their own arena, but not outside. Poultry was kept and raised for thousands of years for reasons (religion etc.) before it was first intentionally selected for egg laying in the Middle East. They have been kept for other than productive reasons for a lot longer than they have for meat and eggs. The Aseel is at least 4,000 years old, and the New Hampshire is confined to a single century.
 
What is the old saying "like produces like" when breeding for "economic usefulness" it is best to have all your males the same size all females the same size.. have them grow at the same rate and start to lay at the same time.... how many breeders look for these things... ?

Keith
SC

I agree. Uniform quality is a strength, and variable results is always an enemy of production management.
 
I'm personally not a fan of RIRs. A friend of mine's parents had a bunch of them when we were growing up, and they loved to chase kids. Since we plan on having a family, that's something I want to do my best to avoid (without having to get rid of otherwise fine birds).

Same here, BUT my father liked the aggressive birds and bred them for it thinking it was better for free ranging. We were so scared of that rooster as kids. That is not what the breed is, my all time best layers were RIR. I have not had them in yrs but they were the best layers ever, I can't imagine how someone can say a leghorn or sexlink whatever could be better, how do you get better than them, egg a day every day? Last RIR roo I had was calm and docile, I got him from a farm. Don't know where he came from as far as genetics but RIR has a history that is good check out some of the heritage breeders. If I was ever to say pick a breed one no other choice, RIR would be it. I've just taken a different route because there is many breeds that need help surviving.
 

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