BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[gjensen]

I didn't say improving oneself was a pissing contest. I'm all about improving a flock and have been working on that for a long time now, but I don't see any worth in posturing about whose a "real" breeder according to some mysterious rule of breeding that dictates that one must write down every time a chicken goes out to free range in order to be considered worth while in their endeavors. It's nice if you want to do it, but one can actually and truly breed one chicken to another and get a good result without jotting down every little fart he let while doing it. Now, whether all the "real" breeders consider that it can be done may be another opinion altogether and they have a right to that opinion...but I don't have to adhere to it. I'm not trying to be a "great" breeder, just simply making improvements in a small way as I enjoy raising chickens.

Bee, know one has or had a problem with what you do or do not do. You directed the conversation by criticizing what others do or do not do because you did not like the idea of it. It was not a positive contribution, it was only a negative criticism. One that had no merit.

 

[gjensen]

That's the thing, though....there shouldn't be any arguments at all. One is a show breeder and all the efforts are geared towards producing dogs fit for show and the other is a small time breeder that breeds a few dogs that are good enough for folks to keep as hunting, herding or pet quality dogs. Never the twain shall meet as they both have a different focus. Comparing the two is futile, so arguing about methods is also futile.

This thread is about breeding for production or meat and isn't even about breeding to SOP or for show. I'd say if one's flock is improving in the areas of more meat and eggs that's good enough to call it an improvement. Some folks just don't see it as this super serious endeavor that requires any argument at all...it's just chickens. Food animals. Shouldn't even garner that much back and forth at all as it's just chickens. It's fun to discuss improving them, but when it gets down to arguing, the fun is sucked right on out of it.

You make it sound like the working dogs required less effort, evaluation, and care in breeding. "small time breeder that breeds a few dogs that are good enough for folks to keep as hunting, herding or pet quality dogs."
What you describe in the quotes is haphazard carelessness. That is not the development of a working line. A working line is not had by "just good enough". There is no such thing as "just good enough" in a true working line. It requires as much discernment as it would the show lines. It is only that the emphasis is different.

Then it does require knowledge and experience to produce quality dogs consistently. No, it does not require any effort or intelligence to breed below average dogs. Thousands of people do that every day.

Some people are concerned with what they produce and others are not. The results do tell.

"It's fun to discuss improving them, but when it gets down to arguing, the fun is sucked right on out of it." - There was no argument. You posted your thoughts about record keeping, which was negative. There was a response. Did you think there should not have been a response and exchange? Doesn't a discussion have more than one side? Arguing involves emotionalism. I do not think anyone has been emotionally involved.

 

[bnjrob]

Since this thread is called breeding for production, that would most likely put most of the people here into the category of production breeders (people breeding and crossing with the goal of increased production, without a decrease in overall health)....yeah?

Sometimes. There are those of us here that breed to the APA SOP, which is supposed to also be breeding for production. Although it doesn't always happen that way. But recently the APA has decided that they need to start re-emphasizing production qualities (in birds that are meant to produce), and not just push pretty feathers. For the birds we have (Javas), utility is as much a part of them as having particular appearance traits and I can't imagine emphasizing one over the other in our birds. I find though that it can be difficult to find anyone to discuss utility breeding with on the other type of threads because there are still many *show people* that are only interested in appearance. And the pet chicken keepers get quite offended with discussions on meat production. So I come here and piss people off by daring to mention breeding to an appearance standard, and then I go to the SOP threads and piss people off by mentioning breeding for production, and it all works out in the wash.

 

[collie1470]

Sometimes.  There are those of us here that breed to the APA SOP, which is supposed to also be breeding for production.  Although it doesn't always happen that way.  But recently the APA has decided that they need to start re-emphasizing production qualities (in birds that are meant to produce), and not just push pretty feathers.  For the birds we have (Javas), utility is as much a part of them as having particular appearance traits and I can't imagine emphasizing one over the other in our birds.  I find though that it can be difficult to find anyone to discuss utility breeding with on the other type of threads because there are still many *show people* that are only interested in appearance.  And the pet chicken keepers get quite offended with discussions on meat production.  So I come here and piss people off by daring to mention breeding to an appearance standard, and then I go to the SOP threads and piss people off by mentioning breeding for production, and it all works out in the wash. 

That's fair lol. In that case, the production goal would be birds closest to the SOP. Either way, a specific goal is set

That's why I put the two together in my original-ish comment comparing the differences in opinions, priorities, and methods of chicken breeders to those of dog breeders.

 

[hellbender]

That's the thing, though....there shouldn't be any arguments at all. One is a show breeder and all the efforts are geared towards producing dogs fit for show and the other is a small time breeder that breeds a few dogs that are good enough for folks to keep as hunting, herding or pet quality dogs. Never the twain shall meet as they both have a different focus. Comparing the two is futile, so arguing about methods is also futile.

This thread is about breeding for production or meat and isn't even about breeding to SOP or for show. I'd say if one's flock is improving in the areas of more meat and eggs that's good enough to call it an improvement. Some folks just don't see it as this super serious endeavor that requires any argument at all...it's just chickens. Food animals. Shouldn't even garner that much back and forth at all as it's just chickens. It's fun to discuss improving them, but when it gets down to arguing, the fun is sucked right on out of it.

Bee...it should be obvious to you now that everyone is allowed to venture their opinion(s) on this thread and it was made clear on the very first page. Generally we get along on this thread but once in a while, we do get a 'muckraker' falling into our midst.

We really don't need, much less want any efforts by ANYONE to stir up the dust or try to intimidate our new members to the thread.

I hope you understand as we move forward.

Thanks

RON

 

[collie1470]

As for offended pet chicken keepers, I've seen that a lot. I think it's hard to imagine people killing an animal that you have come to see as a beloved pet. But, I don't really get that personally. I mean, I have a Guinea Pig....I don't get mad at people in South America for raising Cuys.

 

[hellbender]

As for offended pet chicken keepers, I've seen that a lot. I think it's hard to imagine people killing an animal that you have come to see as a beloved pet. But, I don't really get that personally. I mean, I have a Guinea Pig....I don't get mad at people in South America for raising Cuys.

And it is tasty! lol No kidding! If we didn't raise rabbits.....you can imagine the rest of the line.......

 

[Ifish]

I've been working with hunting dogs for about 20 years. We've owned chickens for ten of those years as layers for a small egg hobby and now our New Hampshires. Our dogs and other dogs I have seen, have very high prey drive. It is a tough mix when dealing with free range chickens, but can be dealt with.

Basic discipline is the first and foremost step in my training method for our dogs. Heel, whoa, sit, lay down, here, leave it, and hup are what I base all other experiences on for the pup. If I say WHOA, that dog should stop immediately. Doesn't matter if it's a chicken or another dog, it should stop. After a while the pups learn that the chickens are off limits and that there is no fun to be found. So they go in search of quail or pheasant, or a dead duck instead of the chicken. They get rewarded for finding the other stuff.

Might not work with all dogs, but it works for us. Electronic collars are a life saver when the pup starts to become a bullheaded teenager. Reinforcing a command from across a field is a very nice ability.

 

[collie1470]

This thread has a lot of great information, even if everyone gets the information differently

 

[collie1470]

And it is tasty!  lol  No kidding!  If we didn't raise rabbits.....you can imagine the rest of the line.......

I've never had Cuy. I'd try it if I ever got to South America, because I like trying new foods. But, our Guinea Pig won't ever be my test dish lol. He's just a pet.

But the chickens....they'll be food. That's not to say they won't be ridiculously well cared for....we care for all of our animals. But food is pretty necessary XD