BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[Fire Ant Farm]

Does timing of mount enter into it? (For some reason I was thinking I had read that...)

 

[NanaKat]

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...on-standard-bred-large-fowl/770#post_15967960

This is a link to the page where I posted photos of the Columbian pullets with traits I select for when choosing breeder pullets. This has been a multi year journey working towards the SOP.

 

[ronott1]

OK, I have a pretty basic question: Paula (cream legbar pullet) laid her first egg (age 26 weeks) on Tuesday, late afternoon (best I can tell, around 3 or so). Yesterday, she laid her second egg at 4-4:30p. No egg today. Should I expect her to lay early in the morning and continue to lay later and later each day over time? Take a break? Or do some pullets/hens lay at around the same time every day? Just curious to hear from all the folks on here with so much eggy experience...

Oh, and I can't help it - gotta post a photo (it's a lot lighter than this photo seems to indicate):



(No egg from Lissa yet - she's a week behind Paula and the next one that seems almost ready.)

- Ant Farm

Chickens, especially breeds like cream legbars that do not lay like commercial breeds, will not be regular like a clock. They can lay an egg any time in the day and will even go long periods of time without laying. Expect something in the 150 to 180 eggs range during the fist egg laying season.

They are pretty and lay nice colored eggs! Customers love to see them.

 

[Beer can]

I am also interested in learning to caponize some of my Jersey Giants (that is what they were originally bred for after all), but I may find that it takes too much time and effort for the end product. I will make that decision after I've tried it out. It may very well be "not worth the effort", but at this point, I'd rather eat a big chicken instead of a small turkey. A small turkey might take less time and effort, but how does the taste compare?

It will probably 'take too much time and effort', I still plan to anyways though. I'm pretty sure I'll keep my Giants, learning the caponing process, will be a long journey but I'm in for the ride. It was dumb luck I figure that SandHill couldn't fill my order for Langshans, beautiful birds, meaty, good layers, but like the Giants inefficient long expensive grow out. I consider it luck they substituted them with Red Sussex, supposed to be a efficient fast growing meaty good egg layer, and a very old breed. Don't know if this line is, I'll give it some time, and if they are not I'll switch them to a good line of German New Hampshires. That's my plan, Giants for capons just because I want them, and a more efficient breed for early fryers, 'balance'.
I don't have a lot of money to spend on feed so looking at alternative ways to supplement protein, also plan on growing mangels, maybe sweet potatoes (I love them though, might not share any Lol) Anything to make the process more affordable.

Have you read these links?
http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LE...chickens/RK=0/RS=_HRdfK05OF47KbaZrY5zg8Ks0FA-

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LE...t_16.pdf/RK=0/RS=1BjOHE_uk25W4eHQ0TKCn5qiun0-

Thanks!

I've heard read some about the benefits of fall-hatched pullets vs. spring hatched pullets for production. I'm not ENTIRELY sure why this is - whether it's a moult timing thing or a winter thing, or both. Could someone help explain?

(Edit: Or was it that spring-hatched pullets were better? Now I've gone and confused myself...)

- Ant Farm

Chicks I got two yrs ago in May, Wellies, Leghorns, EEgrs, Polish, I did not expect to get eggs from until after winter being they did not start before winter, and it is cold dark and dreary here in winter. They started laying in the dead of winter and were very consistent, laid great with no supplemental light.

 

[DesertChic]

I am pretty sure I know the gentleman you are referring to ( initials RK), and while he may be a crusty old bast****, I would not dismiss anything he has to say. He has walked the walk and talked the talk. As gjensen pointed out, he has an opinion, and while you may not share that opinion, that doesn't make it wrong, just different than your viewpoint. I am also interested in learning to caponize some of my Jersey Giants (that is what they were originally bred for after all), but I may find that it takes too much time and effort for the end product. I will make that decision after I've tried it out. It may very well be "not worth the effort", but at this point, I'd rather eat a big chicken instead of a small turkey. A small turkey might take less time and effort, but how does the taste compare?

Oh, I don't dismiss anything RK says and have a huge amount of respect for him, but I also don't simply adopt what he says as gospel because he's been at this so long. His ideology differs significantly from mine. I know it costs more to raise a capon to full butchering size, but the cost of doing so isn't a deterrent for me. I really like capon, and growing them out myself ensures that I know exactly how that bird was raised, what it ate, etc. I like bigger birds to dine on, and while I still cull some of my extra cockerels around 16 weeks, there are many I'd really like to keep around longer to grow them out to be meatier birds, but all that crowing and fighting with one another and chasing the girls....it gets tiring. Keeping them separated requires that I have another designated area for them too, which I can't always do.

Plus....I've got a handful of people who've already told me they're more than willing to pay the price of a home-grown free-ranged capon if I'd be willing to sell.

I just need to figure out what I'm doing. I've literally dissected brains and other parts of human cadavers with ease, but for some reason I'm not quite getting the hang of this caponizing process. I'm a nerd in multiple ways and it annoys me when I don't learn something as expeditiously as I think I should be able to. It's a character flaw of mine.

 

[ronott1]

Chicks I got two yrs ago in May, Wellies, Leghorns, EEgrs, Polish, I did not expect to get eggs from until after winter being they did not start before winter, and it is cold dark and dreary here in winter. They started laying in the dead of winter and were very consistent, laid great with no supplemental light.

Yours are from hatchery stock? There is a huge difference between them and what you would expect from Standard stock. The Hatcheries want eggs so the breed winds up smaller, losing meat production at the expense of egg production.

 

[DesertChic]

To chose not to caponize I didn't have a problem with. To raise 8-12 week birds and eat those I don't have a problem with. To process the 14 -20 week old teens I don't have a problem with. I don't have a problem w/ any way anyone decides to raise their own chickens, for food, for show, for pets is not an issue to me at all. My objection was and is and will remain someone from a position of authority stating opinions as fact things they don't have experience with. For the record I didn't say the person in question had no experience w/ caponizing I asked if they did.

I have never raised 8 week birds I do not know what kind of cost there is to raising them. They may very well be the least expensive way to raise meat, but that method also has you dependent on the hatcheries. Birds caponized and raised through the growing season w/ plenty of bugs and free ranging, hatched from your own chickens eggs, I don't see how they are any / that much more expensive then the 14 - 20 weekers, and no crowing, fighting, hen harassing, no need for extra housing (if isolating them to keep those bad behaviors at bay until processed).

Yes! This explains my position as well.

 

[gjensen]

Oh, I don't dismiss anything RK says and have a huge amount of respect for him, but I also don't simply adopt what he says as gospel because he's been at this so long. His ideology differs significantly from mine. I know it costs more to raise a capon to full butchering size, but the cost of doing so isn't a deterrent for me. I really like capon, and growing them out myself ensures that I know exactly how that bird was raised, what it ate, etc. I like bigger birds to dine on, and while I still cull some of my extra cockerels around 16 weeks, there are many I'd really like to keep around longer to grow them out to be meatier birds, but all that crowing and fighting with one another and chasing the girls....it gets tiring. Keeping them separated requires that I have another designated area for them too, which I can't always do.

Plus....I've got a handful of people who've already told me they're more than willing to pay the price of a home-grown free-ranged capon if I'd be willing to sell.

I just need to figure out what I'm doing. I've literally dissected brains and other parts of human cadavers with ease, but for some reason I'm not quite getting the hang of this caponizing process. I'm a nerd in multiple ways and it annoys me when I don't learn something as expeditiously as I think I should be able to. It's a character flaw of mine.

There is nothing wrong with coming to a different conclusion. It is when we arrogantly dismiss what others say, that have more experience, and we went to them to begin with. .. LOL. They never have to say anything. I cannot say how many pms I get with a question, and then they do not like the answer. Even respond with rudeness. That is what we do. We look to them for help, and then we walk away criticizing the help they offered. That is reflective of a serious character flaw. Typical these days. I disagree with people all of the time, and I am not shy about discussing it with them.

Look at this way. We have done everything but name this man, in public, to the entire world. And he has been publicly criticized for trying to help. That is what I publicly rebuked, or the attitude that leads to it.

We do not think about what we do. We do not leave our own orbit so we only react to how something makes us feel. It is all about us.

When we discuss things here, we are all on equal footing. We bat around thoughts and ideas. We agree and disagree. For a poultry judge, he is in a unique position. People will go to him with questions, and because he or she is not God, they will provide less than perfect answers. People will then walk away offended, and question the character of that imperfect judge. What sense does that make? It would be better if the poultry judge never answered a question at all. Then he will not share thoughts for others to be bothered by.

Now Desertchic, you have a very genuine spirit. Do not take this post as criticism. This is commenting to people in general. This is certainly not questioning your intentions. Please do not take it that way.

 

[gjensen]

This will be my last comment on this line. You are doing the very thing you accused others of earlier, misconstruing comments. I know first hand about raising capons for the table, so am not speaking hypothetically.

I was remarking on your criticizing a man publicly for sharing an unqualified opinion, when your criticism itself was an unqualified opinion.

I hope that you share your experience and knowledge here.

 

[gjensen]

Ahhhhh.... Thank you - obvious in retrospect, I guess. I think that's the clearest explanation I've heard of it.

I have five hatchery Speckled Sussex that are 2 weeks old. I had been almost regretting getting them. But being fall hatches, with the info above, I may keep them at least through their first year and set them up as a little laying sub flock and see how they produce.

- Ant Farm

The goal is to get them laying and the egg size up before the days get too short.

If your birds take 20 weeks until point of lay, then hatch them at such and such a time. If 24 wks at such and such a time. If they mature especially fast, you do not want to hatch them too early. Then they are vulnerable for a first winter molt.

We want our pullets laying through the winter. Our three and four year old breeding hens are not going to lay well through the winter. Our pullets are our winter layers.

Think of it as a seasonal rhythm. We have our ideal hatching times. We should take the above in consideration, and our climate is a consideration. When we want our cockerels ready etc. Here I try to beat the heat without hatching to early. You will find what is best for you. Then you will add a breed, or change breeds, and figure it out again.