BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[gjensen]

I've got a question on a different topic. A lot of people in the on-line SOP world talk about "pair breeding". I've never kept just one cock with one hen but have always found that more cocks and fewer hens meant worn out hens... worn out meaning they have lots of feathers torn out of their backs. Does that not happen in a pen with just one cock and one hen?

Pair mating is usually a temporary arraignment. I like to single mate. I like to emphasize a hen. When I do, they are only together long enough for me to get what I need from her. I am also rotating that cock among different hens.

But yes, left together for long periods . . . that could be a problem for the single hen.

Perhaps not though. He may lose some of his enthusiasm unless he is seeing other females.

In a flock situation, he is perpetually being stimulated and will prefer some over others.

 

[Fire Ant Farm]

I've got a question on a different topic. A lot of people in the on-line SOP world talk about "pair breeding". I've never kept just one cock with one hen but have always found that more cocks and fewer hens meant worn out hens... worn out meaning they have lots of feathers torn out of their backs. Does that not happen in a pen with just one cock and one hen?

So glad you asked this - I was wondering this as well.

Pair mating is usually a temporary arraignment. I like to single mate. I like to emphasize a hen. When I do, they are only together long enough for me to get what I need from her. I am also rotating that cock among different hens.

But yes, left together for long periods . . . that could be a problem for the single hen.

Perhaps not though. He may lose some of his enthusiasm unless he is seeing other females.

In a flock situation, he is perpetually being stimulated and will prefer some over others.

Sorry to be dense, George, but could you elaborate on the bolded part above, with regard to how long is long enough before moving the cock? (For the more inexperienced like me?)

- Ant Farm

 

[varidgerunner]

I'm sure that he was referring to leaving a cock with a hen for however long she needed to clean out plus however long he needed to get a set of eggs out of her. With my games sometimes I rotate a cock between hens, every other day he wakes up in a different pen. You could in theory rotate him between 7 hens in this manner, probably much better three or four. In my situation it is the cock that I have to watch out for to get all bedraggled, these girls are vicious.

If you keep an animal for milk or eggs, it is much more difficult to quantify the males input. In situations like this it pays to use the females genetics as much as possible. The best hen crossed on a cock whose daughters are proven producers, one of her sons in another pen and another in another. If you have a hen that lays once a week in with a bunch that lay every other day, how are you going to keep her eggs out of the incubator? If you keep her son as a cock and put him over your ten best hens, you will be going backwards. If nothing else, pair mating would show you which hens were most productive.

 

[Beer can]

Those look like cross breds ... but they also look nice and big.  Should be interesting to see how many eggs the pullet(s) can get underneath her (their) fluffy bottom(s).

I'd imagine they were crossed at some point for sure. I think TSC gets their chicks from Ideal. I wish I wrote down dates on them, they were the fastest growing quickest to lay birds I've ever had. And they've been laying great, three to five medium eggs out of five everyday. A couple of them I have to kick out of the nest boxes a few times a day so the other breeds can lay, nest hogs Lol. I think they'll make good broodies.

 

[Mini Meat]

Now to add depth, to the discussion, I don't pretend to be a chicken breeder, I am just trying to keep the ones I have like they were when I got them. I have done a bit of farming with various other livestock, and I have dabbled with hunting dogs. Hounds would be easier for me to use to illustrate, because I am more familiar with them. A lot of people get the notion that if they cross a bulldog, for pure toughness, with a bloodhound, for nose, with a German Shepherd, for smarts, with a Greyhound for speed, that they would have a hound far better than the ones that people have been perfecting for hundreds of years to have those traits balanced within one family. Now, you might end up with a really outstanding individual, but it is much more likely that you will end up with a dog that is as slow as a bloodhound, the speed of the bulldog, the scenting ability of the greyhound with below average smarts that looks like a German Shepherd. Some of the traits are actually antagonistic to each other in some cases, dogs that stay barking up a tree good sometimes aren't as good at making something decide to climb a tree, sometimes dogs with a real good nose aren't very fast. This could carry over into fowl, in that high egg production might be antagonistic to efficient meat production. Crossing a leghorn with a cornish might not be a viable solution.

Getting the traits that you want balanced is much further compounded when we add silly human contrivances as phenotypic color selection. The best dogs I have hunted with have been bred by breeders who didn't give a rip what color they were as long as they got the job done. Breeding for balanced performance AND the right color add much more need for depth in the breeding program. Most unique color schemes most likely came about because a breeder noticed that the stock in his or her program that exhibited the performance or production traits they wanted also happened to come a certain color. It made for an easy marker for the ones that were bred right. It is much more likely that someone bred a breed that did what they wanted and the end result happened to be a certain color, than that someone started with a certain color and then selected for the desired production traits, in most instances.

I have noticed that in my DC pullets. The better the pattern the beefier the bird. The poorly patterned pullets are lighter weights.

 

[Fire Ant Farm]

I have noticed that in my DC pullets. The better the pattern the beefier the bird. The poorly patterned pullets are lighter weights.

Ah, yes. This was the reason for my original question (re: the combs, for instance) - realizing that sometimes the SOP is what it is for a good production reason that perhaps has been lost to most of us, knowledge-wise.

It helps to know the underpinnings of some of what you are selecting for, if you are faced with an "either/or" choice in a given bird/generation and will never show birds...

I would love to hear of other examples like this (where meeting SOP translates to a better bird for production).

- Ant Farm

 

[gjensen]

I'm sure that he was referring to leaving a cock with a hen for however long she needed to clean out plus however long he needed to get a set of eggs out of her. With my games sometimes I rotate a cock between hens, every other day he wakes up in a different pen. You could in theory rotate him between 7 hens in this manner, probably much better three or four. In my situation it is the cock that I have to watch out for to get all bedraggled, these girls are vicious.

If you keep an animal for milk or eggs, it is much more difficult to quantify the males input. In situations like this it pays to use the females genetics as much as possible. The best hen crossed on a cock whose daughters are proven producers, one of her sons in another pen and another in another. If you have a hen that lays once a week in with a bunch that lay every other day, how are you going to keep her eggs out of the incubator? If you keep her son as a cock and put him over your ten best hens, you will be going backwards. If nothing else, pair mating would show you which hens were most productive.

LOL. Yes, you have to watch the hen to.

 

[Our Roost]

Glad you enjoyed. This indeed a well known breeders stock but not mine! Yaa, Combs and wattles is on my wish list also. The Flemish cuckoo, if found, would be a good match for this breed. Another would be an izegemse.

 

[hellbender]

Horrific trailer-park Avian Flu disaster

 

[Fire Ant Farm]

Horrific trailer-park Avian Flu disaster