BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[abbevilleoz]

True.. cows milk is more tough.

My family had its own CSA growing up. Grandma's sister keep Jerseys. She churned it for butter and buttermilk and we drank it raw. Still remember the smell of wild scallions in the milk in Spring. Grandpas uncle butchered hogs that we salt cured and made sausage. Huge garden. Our cellar looked like a preppy organic food store. Shelves of canned tomatoes, bean, etc., pickled corn in urns, dried beans, fruit. Really miss those days and the food. Gosh I'm hungry!

 

[bnjrob]

Bayer recently bought Monsanto for $ 66 billion ($128 a share).

Nothing like a company that can poison you, then turn around and sell you medication to treat the symptoms of the poison.

 

[abbevilleoz]

Nothing like a company that can poison you, then turn around and sell you medication to treat the symptoms of the poison.

 

[3riverschick]

Here read this. It is brand new and really exciting. Posted Aug. 17, 2016.
I do apologize for retracting the info I posted earlier on this subject. I got my feelings hurt because I wanted to share something important to me and it seemed like all anyone wanted to talk about was fermented feed. Well, this is very much a natural feeding thread and I should have expected that. I am sorry. I won't take this back or do that again. The research in this field is moving very rapidly. When I wrote the nutrigenomics protocol for the puppies I was a bit a head of the curve and it was considered ground-breaking. Now 14 years later,I find I am about 7 years behind the curve when it comes to farm animals. Basically, A neonate is a neonate is a neonate. The research on this subject is combined in the journals with dairy and swine research of the same. So there is plenty of opportunity to learn from different species. The poultry is especially fascinating because we are dealing with an egg and not a mammalian fetus.
Given that the hen and cock have both been fed proper diets to produce a quality fertile egg and that the egg is developing normally..... At day 17.5 the chick starts to drink the amniotic fluid. This is when we give the injection of an "extra meal" to the chick. It replenishs the dwindling supply of nutrients in the egg. Plus jumpstarts the further development of the immune system and especially! the G.I. tract. In puppies, I did this by giving each pup 1-2 ml of Dr. Dodd's (thawed) fresh frozen canine plasma by mouth before colostrum closure ( plus some other supplements). It worked great in enhancing the foundation upon which their immune system would mature.
In chicks, the research is working to eliminate the lack of nutrients from hatch thru day 2 or 3. Eliminating this nutrient deficiency will do at least 3 things.
1. It will allow the chick to use the yolk sac for its intended purpose, not for just everyday nutrition.
2. It will keep the chick from siphoning glycogen out of the myofibers of the muscles to make up for low glycogen after hatch because it wasn't fed right away. Losing that glycogen at this stage will retard the amount of breast meat the bird can put on later in life.
3. It will positively impact the chick reaching its full genetic potential thru out its lifetime.
4. Not going to address the positive anti-pathogen aspects because I don't fully understand them yet, the journals do a better job of that. Needless to say, the commercial industry is excited because this prenatal and perinatal early nutrition is the road they are taking to replace antibiotics in growing out birds. They are working to make a better G.I. tract which will enhance both uptake of nutrition( better grow out) and provide enhanced protection against negative pathogens.
Page 4 of the PDF is riveting!
Also any articles by Prof. Uni and Prof. Ferket are well worth reading.
They are on the front lines of this research.
Best,
Karen

Front Vet Sci. 2016; 3: 63.
Published online 2016 Aug 17. doi: 10.3389/fvets.2016.00063
PMCID: PMC4987676
Applications of In Ovo Technique for the Optimal Development of the Gastrointestinal Tract and the Potential Influence on the Establishment of Its Microbiome in Poultry

Stephanie M. Roto,1,2 Young Min Kwon,2,3,4 and Steven C. Ricke1,2,3,4,*
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4987676/pdf/fvets-03-00063.pdf

A very short article on the defintion of "epigenetics" .
Just reading the first part is enough:
http://www.what is epigenetics.com/fundamentals/
I am putting : nutrigenomics epigenetics : tags on posts on this subject.
That way if anyone ever wants to find them, all they have to do is search
this thread for those 2 words. That should overcome the fast-moving
thread issue, smile.

 

[CanadianBuckeye]

Here read this. It is brand new and really exciting. Posted Aug. 17, 2016.
I do apologize for retracting the info I posted earlier on this subject. I got my feelings hurt because I wanted to share something important to me and it seemed like all anyone wanted to talk about was fermented feed. Well, this is very much a natural feeding thread and I should have expected that. I am sorry. I won't take this back or do that again. The research in this field is moving very rapidly. When I wrote the nutrigenomics protocol for the puppies I was a bit a head of the curve and it was considered ground-breaking. Now 14 years later,I find I am about 7 years behind the curve when it comes to farm animals. Basically, A neonate is a neonate is a neonate. The research on this subject is combined in the journals with dairy and swine research of the same. So there is plenty of opportunity to learn from different species. The poultry is especially fascinating because we are dealing with an egg and not a mammalian fetus.
Given that the hen and cock have both been fed proper diets to produce a quality fertile egg and that the egg is developing normally..... At day 17.5 the chick starts to drink the animoic fluid. This is when we give the injection of an "extra meal" to the chick. It replenishs the dwindling supply of nutrients in the egg. Plus jumpstarts the further development of the immune system and especially! the G.I. tract. In puppies, I did this buy giving each pup 1-2 ml of Dr. Dodd's (thawed) fresh frozen canine plasma by mouth before colostrum closure ( plus some other supplements). It worked great in enhancing the foundation upon which their immune system would mature.
In chicks, the research is working to eliminate the lack of nutrients from hatch thru day 2 or 3. Eliminating this nutrient deficiency will do at least 3 things.
1. It will allow the chick to use the yolk sac for its intended purpose, not for just everyday nutrition.
2. It will keep the chick from siphoning glycogen out of the myofibers of the muscles to make up for low glycogen after hatch because it wasn't fed right away. Losing that glycogen at this stage will retard the amount of breast meat the bird can put on later in life.
3. It will positively impact the chick reaching its full genetic potential thru out its lifetime.
4. Not going to address the positive anti-pathogen aspects because I don't fully understand them yet, the journals do a better job of that. Needless to say, the commercial industry is excited because this prenatal and perinatal early nutrition is the road they are taking to replace antibiotics in growing out birds. They are working to make a better G.I. tract which will enhance both uptake of nutrition( better grow out) and provide enhanced protection against negative pathogens.
Page 4 of the PDF is riveting!
Also any articles by Prof. Uni and Prof. Ferket are well worth reading.
They are on the front lines of this research.
Best,
Karen

Front Vet Sci. 2016; 3: 63.
Published online 2016 Aug 17. doi: 10.3389/fvets.2016.00063

PMCID: PMC4987676
Applications of In Ovo Technique for the Optimal Development of the Gastrointestinal Tract and the Potential Influence on the Establishment of Its Microbiome in Poultry

Stephanie M. Roto,1,2 Young Min Kwon,2,3,4 and Steven C. Ricke1,2,3,4,*
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4987676/pdf/fvets-03-00063.pdf

A very short artcile on the defintion of "epigenetics" .
Just reading the first part is enough:
http://www.what is epigenetics.com/fundamentals/
I am putting : nutrigenomics epigenetics : tags on posts on this subject.
That way if anyone ever wants to find them, all they have to do is search
this thread for those 2 wrods. That should overcome the fast-moving
thread issue, smile.


That's great! Glad to see you back. Keep 'em coming, fascinating stuff. I find it very interesting just how important healthy gut flora is to everything with a gut!

 

[3riverschick]

That's great! Glad to see you back. Keep 'em coming, fascinating stuff. I find it very interesting just how important healthy gut flora is to everything with a gut!

It really is! Enhanced development of the goblet cells. the height of the villi and the depth
of the crypts in the G.I. tract affect so many things for the good in creatures. There is a neat YouTube video by a professor in Hawaii showing how to do in ovo supplementation. I read on the Net that a size 25 needle is right size to use. So far I have leaned toward the carbohydrate injection pioneered by Uni and Ferket because it produces the results I was looking for. enhanced G.I. tract development; preventing "starvation mode" right after hatch; and addition of more meat on the breast.
Granted there is a very small amount of meat added to the breast. However, I wonder what would happen if one used the technique in a line breeding program? Would the effect accumulate over time due to epigenetics? I have one article which seems to say the epigenetic effect from in ovo nutrigenomics ( using nutrition to effect the animal's genome) is passed on to the next generation. If this is true, does this mean we could use the in ovo system in a line breeding program thru the generations to add more meat to our birds breasts? Hum....
I should have mentioned earlier the injection does not go into the chick itself. The nutrition solution ( or whichever solution is used) goes into the air cell and/or the amniotic fluid. I like the amniotic fluid idea because on the 17.5 day the chick starts to drink it. So it also drinks an extra meal, smile.
Karen epigenetics nutrigenomics

 

[3riverschick]

The Potential of In Ovo Feeding and Perinatal Nutrition
Published on: 6/17/2014
Author/s : Peter Ferket (William Neal Reynolds Distinguished Professor of Poultry Science,
Nutrition, and Biotechnology, North Carolina State University)
http://en.engormix.com/MA-poultry-i...he-potential-ovo-feeding-t3176/471-p0.htm#_=_

Here is an easy to read ( I like easy-to-read, smile) opus by Ferket on in ovo feeding.
It includes a simple summery of epigenetics. Lots of bibliography on work by himself
and Uni for further reading if anyone wants too.
epigenetics nutrigenomics
Karen

 

[CanadianBuckeye]

It really is! Enhanced development of the goblet cells. the height of the villi and the depth
of the crypts in the G.I. tract affect so many things for the good in creatures. There is a neat YouTube video by a professor in Hawaii showing how to do in ovo supplementation. I read on the Net that a size 25 needle is right size to use. So far I have leaned toward the carbohydrate injection pioneered by Uni and Ferket because it produces the results I was looking for. enhanced G.I. tract development; preventing "starvation mode" right after hatch; and addition of more meat on the breast.
Granted there is a very small amount of meat added to the breast. However, I wonder what would happen if one used the technique in a line breeding program? Would the effect accumulate over time due to epigenetics? I have one article which seems to say the epigenetic effect from in ovo nutrigenomics ( using nutrition to effect the animal's genome) is passed on to the next generation. If this is true, does this mean we could use the in ovo system in a line breeding program thru the generations to add more meat to our birds breasts? Hum....
Karen epigenetics nutrigenomics

Do commercial meaties really need more meat on their breasts? Lately the commercial chickens at the grocery store seem to be all freakishly large breast, legs and wings have almost disappeared :-\ bad news for a dark meat lover like myself.
I'm definitely going to start adding food to the hatcher though- there are clearly other benefits.

 

[Beer can]

@Turk Raphael you were definitely right caponizing older cockerels, glad I didn't waste my time. Those testes were HUGE. Even with the bigger rib spreader I think it would have been about impossible to remove them from a live bird.

 

[Molpet]

The Potential of In Ovo Feeding and Perinatal Nutrition
Published on: 6/17/2014
Author/s : Peter Ferket (William Neal Reynolds Distinguished Professor of Poultry Science,
Nutrition, and Biotechnology, North Carolina State University)
http://en.engormix.com/MA-poultry-i...he-potential-ovo-feeding-t3176/471-p0.htm#_=_
Here is an easy to read ( I like easy-to-read, smile) opus by Ferket on in ovo feeding.
It includes a simple summery of epigenetics. Lots of bibliography on work by himself and Uni for further reading if anyone wants too.
epigenetics nutrigenomics
Karen

interesting article and worth reading...especially the human studies after wwII.... not too sure how to implement it w/feed store chicks... my broodies chicks did get ff right away and some did eat it at day 2, but not day 1.