Breeding hatchery stock to SOP, is it worth it?

[Fred's Hens]

No apologies needed and no offense taken at all. No worries.

 

[K813ZRA]

No apologies needed and no offense taken at all. No worries.

Thanks mate, I truly appreciate the explanation and advice I just don't always express myself as well as I would like.

 

[Sydney Acres]

I think it is a common misconception that "show chickens" are not "real chickens," meaning that people that breed show flocks breed just for appearance and not for function. And I admit, that is sometimes true. There are some exhibition quality birds that are far removed from their original farm function. However, that is not usually the case.

Remember, most of these Standards were written a century ago or more, when these breeds had a job to do, an essential role on the farm. Families depended on these birds to flesh out properly and lay eggs well. For most breeds, appearance does affect function -- but you need a trained eye to realize that. You want a hen that lays well? -- she needs to have a certain length to her back and a certain width to her pelvis. You want a bird that can walk properly and has the physical ability to breed? -- you do best with a hen with a level back, and a cock with a slightly inclined stance. You want a bird that produces a good carcass? -- you want a bird that has a properly rounded chest, adequately long keel, and a wide based stance so the meat has a place to be. You want a bird that can survive in the heat? -- you need adequate surface area on the comb and waddles. Or a bird that doesn't get frostbite in the cold? -- a rose comb will serve you better.

It's much easier to concentrate on the finishing details -- what color is it, how crisp is the pattern, how many points are on the comb, what color are the legs, those sorts of things. But those obvious features are only the icing on the cake. A well formed bird of proper size but imperfect color should always win over a scrawny, small, or poorly formed bird of perfect feet, head, and color. Yes, there are some instances where the scrawny fancy thing wins, especially in the smaller shows, but get to the larger shows and competition is real, and the judges are looking for the total package, not just something with pretty feathers.

Good quality birds don't cost any more to feed than poor quality birds. They require the same investment in infrastructure, and the same daily care. They do take more effort to find, and may cost a little more to purchase (although that is not always the case). But they provide a good foundation for a productive breeding program, giving you the genetic components necessary to develop the bird that you want. I think of having birds with good genetics for a breeding program like having good ingredients when cooking. If we've got the right ingredients, most of us can cook a decent meal. If we have poor quality ingredients, most of us will end up with something that we don't like. And if we don't have certain necessary ingredients for a particular dish, we're just not going to get that dish, no matter what your cooking talent.

 

[K813ZRA]

I think it is a common misconception that "show chickens" are not "real chickens," meaning that people that breed show flocks breed just for appearance and not for function. And I admit, that is sometimes true. There are some exhibition quality birds that are far removed from their original farm function. However, that is not usually the case.

Remember, most of these Standards were written a century ago or more, when these breeds had a job to do, an essential role on the farm. Families depended on these birds to flesh out properly and lay eggs well. For most breeds, appearance does affect function -- but you need a trained eye to realize that. You want a hen that lays well? -- she needs to have a certain length to her back and a certain width to her pelvis. You want a bird that can walk properly and has the physical ability to breed? -- you do best with a hen with a level back, and a cock with a slightly inclined stance. You want a bird that produces a good carcass? -- you want a bird that has a properly rounded chest, adequately long keel, and a wide based stance so the meat has a place to be. You want a bird that can survive in the heat? -- you need adequate surface area on the comb and waddles. Or a bird that doesn't get frostbite in the cold? -- a rose comb will serve you better.

It's much easier to concentrate on the finishing details -- what color is it, how crisp is the pattern, how many points are on the comb, what color are the legs, those sorts of things. But those obvious features are only the icing on the cake. A well formed bird of proper size but imperfect color should always win over a scrawny, small, or poorly formed bird of perfect feet, head, and color. Yes, there are some instances where the scrawny fancy thing wins, especially in the smaller shows, but get to the larger shows and competition is real, and the judges are looking for the total package, not just something with pretty feathers.

Good quality birds don't cost any more to feed than poor quality birds. They require the same investment in infrastructure, and the same daily care. They do take more effort to find, and may cost a little more to purchase (although that is not always the case). But they provide a good foundation for a productive breeding program, giving you the genetic components necessary to develop the bird that you want. I think of having birds with good genetics for a breeding program like having good ingredients when cooking. If we've got the right ingredients, most of us can cook a decent meal. If we have poor quality ingredients, most of us will end up with something that we don't like. And if we don't have certain necessary ingredients for a particular dish, we're just not going to get that dish, no matter what your cooking talent.

Thank you for the explanation as it clears up a lot of things for me. I guess I asked the wrong questions when I started this thread and have come to the realization that what I want to know is if I could up breed hatchery stock to have passable meat and egg qualities. Because a lot of people on here say the meat qualities of hatchery birds can be a little lacking.

As far as finding quality stock for only a little more cost, I simply havent been able to. The best I have found for Buff Orpingtons from a breeder that will ship to my location and actually has stock is $18 a bird which is very far off of $1.75-$3 found at cackle. I wanted 22 pullets and 2 cockerels, plus a few extra of each incase of loss. (As an aside, I have found breeder stock for around $5-7 a bird but they either live on the other side of the country and don't ship or are out for the season.)

I haven't commited to anything yet as I am still looking for a deal somewhere in the middle. Also, I am still asking questions like the one posed in this thread before I do make up my mind because I want to take the right route from the beginning.

 

[Pork Pie]

Would starting with dual purpose breeds not work for you?

 

[K813ZRA]

Would starting with dual purpose breeds not work for you?

I thought an Orpington was a dual purpose breed. I just under the impression that hatchery dual purpose birds are lacking in the meat department.

 

[Pork Pie]

Sorry, I'm not well up on breeds as we can't get hold of them here in Kenya. What i have done is use a commercial dual purpose bird and bred the best layers with a roo of choice (large, in your case) - i get birds that are good layers and their carcass weight is ideal.

 

[K813ZRA]

Sorry, I'm not well up on breeds as we can't get hold of them here in Kenya. What i have done is use a commercial dual purpose bird and bred the best layers with a roo of choice (large, in your case) - i get birds that are good layers and their carcass weight is ideal.

Thank you, that is really what I was wanting to know.

 

[Pork Pie]

 

[AllynTal]

I think it is a common misconception that "show chickens" are not "real chickens," meaning that people that breed show flocks breed just for appearance and not for function. ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydney Acres
... You want a hen that lays well? -- she needs to have a certain length to her back and a certain width to her pelvis. You want a bird that can walk properly and has the physical ability to breed? -- you do best with a hen with a level back, and a cock with a slightly inclined stance. You want a bird that produces a good carcass? -- you want a bird that has a properly rounded chest, adequately long keel, and a wide based stance so the meat has a place to be. You want a bird that can survive in the heat? -- you need adequate surface area on the comb and waddles. ......

:::taking notes, taking notes:::: Thank you!