Breeding two mutations.

[chickens really]

This is a pure Call Hen Duckling out of my Chocolate Ancona and a white Call Hen..It's a Black ..Magpie I'm thinking..

 

[Senna95]

Because so many of us don't know the history and pedigree of our ducks, we often get oddballs that pop up. I have had a closed flock (with one exception: I brought in 1 Saxony drake about 3 years ago) for about 7 years now. I have never had or seen bibbed or black ducks in my flock, but this little guy hatched out of one of my eggs one day. Somehow, somewhere the genes for this color pattern are hidden within my flock. I don't know who his parents were, but I have a suspicion. Out of the hundreds I've hatched, it was just this one...

All I have are greys, trouts, and harlequins. Occasionally I get a white bird, so I know I've got some recessive white in a couple of my birds, but this one was really odd...
If black is completely dominant it would have shown up somehow.

Unfortunately this little guy died before he grew out, so I was not able to do a test cross.

Houndhunter77...didn't you say that you had harlequins? My suspicion is that your oddball ducks are harlequin crosses...

 

[Pyxis]

Because so many of us don't know the history and pedigree of our ducks, we often get oddballs that pop up. I have had a closed flock (with one exception: I brought in 1 Saxony drake about 3 years ago) for about 7 years now. I have never had or seen bibbed or black ducks in my flock, but this little guy hatched out of one of my eggs one day. Somehow, somewhere the genes for this color pattern are hidden within my flock. I don't know who his parents were, but I have a suspicion. Out of the hundreds I've hatched, it was just this one...

All I have are greys, trouts, and harlequins. Occasionally I get a white bird, so I know I've got some recessive white in a couple of my birds, but this one was really odd...
If black is completely dominant it would have shown up somehow.

View attachment 1538524 View attachment 1538525

Unfortunately this little guy died before he grew out, so I was not able to do a test cross.

Houndhunter77...didn't you say that you had harlequins? My suspicion is that your oddball ducks are harlequin crosses...

Very interesting! It also makes me wonder, extended black at some point appeared as a spontaneous mutation and that's how we have that color now. Who's to say it couldn't happen again as a random mutation?

It happens fairly often with cresting. Cresting is dominant, but it happens often as a random mutation where two non-crested ducks will produce a crested duckling. It's actually quite common as far as spontaneous mutations go.

 

[WVduckchick]

Well I may as well not even try to figure out mine’s lineage, nor predict what I might get.

 

[Senna95]

Very interesting! It also makes me wonder, extended black at some point appeared as a spontaneous mutation and that's how we have that color now. Who's to say it couldn't happen again as a random mutation?

It happens fairly often with cresting. Cresting is dominant, but it happens often as a random mutation where two non-crested ducks will produce a crested duckling. It's actually quite common as far as spontaneous mutations go.

Yeah, could be. Or there are 2 forms of black: a dominant (or incompletely dominant), and a recessive. The bibbed gene is like this: there is a recessive and a dominant form. Also in dog breeding: certain breeds have both dominant and recessive forms of black actually found at 2 different loci.

Notice too, that all the examples of black popping up have had the white bib?

I just think that there is still a lot to be learned about duck color genetics, and it's not as simply black and white as we'd like it to be.... but then, for me, this is what makes it fun. Always new information to add to the puzzle.

 

[Pyxis]

Notice too, that all the examples of black popping up have had the white bib?

Yes, I've read some information on that; the current idea is that it's either a dominant gene linked to the extended black gene, or that it's actually an interaction effect linked to the extended black gene.

But some ducks are solid black without the bib, or solid colored with no bib like chocolate, so I do wonder what is different in those cases. The genetics calculator says that it's the addition of Dusky that does that, but I don't know if that's accurate.

It's all very interesting.

 

[Senna95]

Yes, I've read some information on that; the current idea is that it's either a dominant gene linked to the extended black gene, or that it's actually an interaction effect linked to the extended black gene.

But some ducks are solid black without the bib, or solid colored with no bib like chocolate, so I do wonder what is different in those cases. The genetics calculator says that it's the addition of Dusky that does that, but I don't know if that's accurate.

It's all very interesting.

When I first started with ducks I did the same thing everyone else did: went to Tractor Supply and got a few cute ducklings and let them hatch a few eggs. I think, if I remember right, that I had fawn and white runners, Rouen, and cayugans. A lot of my offspring ended up being some version of black with bib. Of course at the time I had no idea what I was doing, so I wasn't really paying attention. Since that time I've been concentrating on the wild types, and haven't really kept up with some of the other colors as much. I haven't looked at the genetic calculator in ages...time to check that out again and see what's changed since last time.

 

[Houndhunter77]

Because so many of us don't know the history and pedigree of our ducks, we often get oddballs that pop up. I have had a closed flock (with one exception: I brought in 1 Saxony drake about 3 years ago) for about 7 years now. I have never had or seen bibbed or black ducks in my flock, but this little guy hatched out of one of my eggs one day. Somehow, somewhere the genes for this color pattern are hidden within my flock. I don't know who his parents were, but I have a suspicion. Out of the hundreds I've hatched, it was just this one...

All I have are greys, trouts, and harlequins. Occasionally I get a white bird, so I know I've got some recessive white in a couple of my birds, but this one was really odd...
If black is completely dominant it would have shown up somehow.

View attachment 1538524 View attachment 1538525

Unfortunately this little guy died before he grew out, so I was not able to do a test cross.

Houndhunter77...didn't you say that you had harlequins? My suspicion is that your oddball ducks are harlequin crosses...

 

[Pyxis]

View attachment 1539398

Any chance you could get a better picture of that female that's in the lower right corner and is cut off? In this picture, to me, she looks like she might be a sun-bleached chocolate. And chocolate is based on extended black. She doesn't look to have the pencilling in the feathers that a khaki (based on e+) has. It might just be this picture, though.

 

[Senna95]

Any chance you could get a better picture of that female that's in the lower right corner and is cut off? In this picture, to me, she looks like she might be a sun-bleached chocolate. And chocolate is based on extended black. She doesn't look to have the pencilling in the feathers that a khaki (based on e+) has. It might just be this picture, though.

Good eye there. That would explain the black, as well as the mix of dusky and wild type offspring: some with brown dilution, and all without blue dilution (which all should have if dad was a butterscotch).

And if the pictured drake was the father (he's a harlequin) then it's mystery solved!