Breeding White split to lavender with Lavender

[Lady of McCamley]

1. Since the pen had both a lavender roo and a white/lavender split roo we don’t know which was father (if that matters) which means these offspring may/might not have received lavender gene since the white roo was split right?

2. IF they did receive the lavender gene wouldn’t they be white/split lavender so if I bred them to a lavender roo I could get lavenders?

If dominant white...yes they could be split to lavender.

If recessive white...no. They would have 2 recessive white genes and no lavender. (As I understand it as split terminology indicates the same gene local).

If the lavender roo was the father (who was the mother)?

I'm going by white pullets.

LofMc

 

[NatJ]

If dominant white...yes they could be split to lavender.

If recessive white...no. They would have 2 recessive white genes and no lavender. (As I understand it as split terminology indicates the same gene local).

There are three loci being discussed here:
Dominant White is at one locus.
Recessive white is at another locus.
Lavender is at yet another locus.

A chicken who shows Dominant White or recessive white can still have one or even two genes for lavender, but we won't see them because the bird looks white.

If the hens are Dominant White, and the rooster is Lavender, then chicks should be split (heterozygous) at two loci:
Dominant White/not
Lavender/not
So they will look white, but be carrying the genes for not-white and for lavender.

If the hens are recessive white, and the rooster is Lavender, then chicks should be split (heterozygous) at two loci:
recessive white/not
lavender/not
Such chicks will probably look black, because of lavender and recessive white both being recessive, and because the "Lavender" rooster probably has all the right genes to be a black chicken whose color is then diluted to lavender.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

@NatJ
I knew I got to the right outcome...but had the wrong gene path. Thank you for clarifying.

LofMc

 

[Pandang81]

If dominant white...yes they could be split to lavender.

If recessive white...no. They would have 2 recessive white genes and no lavender. (As I understand it as split terminology indicates the same gene local).

If the lavender roo was the father (who was the mother)?

I'm going by white pullets.

LofMc

All hens were white with no lavender gene so the “mother” was definitely white. These chicks were all born white also. Not sure if that helps. I think if the breeder knows if the hens & the white roo are dominant or recessive will help narrow this down.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

All hens were white with no lavender gene so the “mother” was definitely white. These chicks were all born white also. Not sure if that helps. I think if the breeder knows if the hens & the white roo are dominant or recessive will help narrow this down.

Yes. NatJ clarified (and yes, I feel silly, I KNEW they were different loci...brain fog is strong with this one tonight) there are 3 gene locations we are talking about: Dominant white (ask breeder), recessive white, lavender.

If Dominant white...it only takes 1 gene for the hens to be white. (Let's hope it's not that as that's hard to breed out).

If Recessive white....they will have to have 2 white genes to show white.

Lavender....they could have one or two (according to NatJ) but it won't show as recessive or dominant white would simply cover it up. (Which I know working with barred birds...you can have a barred bird but it won't show up if white is present).

You likely will have to breed them forward to see what you get. (Always the case no matter what the breeder says...the proof is in the results).
Lavender roo over recessive white hens IF they have a lavender gene will get you lavender chicks 50% of the time. The other 50% of the time they will be heterozygous lavender (1 gene) with heterozygous white (1 gene) ..and since that wouldn't have 2 genes for lavender or 2 genes for white, then you'd get black.

So in that instance these white hens bred to that lavender rooster *should* present 50% black chicks and 50% lavender chicks....if we've made assumptions right and they are recessive white carrying 1 lavender (split to lavender).

My thoughts.
LofMc

 

[NatJ]

All hens were white with no lavender gene so the “mother” was definitely white. These chicks were all born white also. Not sure if that helps. I think if the breeder knows if the hens & the white roo are dominant or recessive will help narrow this down.

If you have chicks with a lavender father and a white mother, and all the chicks are white, then you are working with Dominant White.

If you have chicks with a lavender father and a white mother, and none of the chicks are white, you are most likely working with recessive white.

If you have chicks with a lavender father and a white mother, and you get some white chicks and some that are not white, it's a bit harder to figure out.

 

[Pandang81]

So in that instance these white hens bred to that lavender rooster *should* present 50% black chicks and 50% lavender chicks....if we've made assumptions right and they are recessive white carrying 1 lavender (split to lavender).

My thoughts.
LofMc

so sounds like since all of the chicks hatched white then either :
1. The hens bred to the lavender roo are dominant white (otherwise chicks would have hatched black?) is that a correct understanding of the possible color of chicks ?
or
2. The white hens bred only to the white roo and the white chicks could be either white or white/lavender in this case and either recessive or dominant white…unknown

You talking recessive white or dominate white?
White silkies used to all be recessive white but paints brought in dominate white.
Any chance theses were from a paint breeder or?

breeder gave me the following info that I was able to locate from when we spoke previously before she sent me the eggs from her 8 different pens. This pen has the following :
“Pen consists of one lavender rooster, one white rooster, one white frizzle Satin hen, two paint Satin hens, and one white silkie.”

so I hatched 4 white silkies (2 satin feathered & 2 silkie feathered) from this pen.
I am still waiting on her to respond with more on the parents genetics and will update when I have.

 

[Pandang81]

If you have chicks with a lavender father and a white mother, and all the chicks are white, then you are working with Dominant White.

If you have chicks with a lavender father and a white mother, and none of the chicks are white, you are most likely working with recessive white.

If you have chicks with a lavender father and a white mother, and you get some white chicks and some that are not white, it's a bit harder to figure out.

There is a white /lavender roo too, as mentioned in my post. So we don’t know which is father.

 

[NatJ]

There is a white /lavender roo too, as mentioned in my post. So we don’t know which is father.

Yes, but you might be able to take it back another level-- if that white/lavender roo IS white, then he's probably got Dominant White himself. So you would at least know which kind of white he is.

Does the white/lavender rooster come from the same pen he is currently in?

 

[Pandang81]

Yes, but you might be able to take it back another level-- if that white/lavender roo IS white, then he's probably got Dominant White himself. So you would at least know which kind of white he is.

Does the white/lavender rooster come from the same pen he is currently in?

So I spoke to the breeder and she has been wonderful with information about all of her pens & always spot on with her information about her pens. For this pen I asked her about the history of the lavender roo & the history of the white roo and the history of the white & paint hens. . I’m confused. Here is what she said.

“I've hatched everyone and the three generations before them. Before that I bought eggs on eBay for lots of different people. It's been years though and I didn't keep records then.

The white rooster could have two copies of recessive white. I say that because neither of his parents are white, both are unrelated blacks. His black mom came from a paint pen & his black dad came from an all black split lavender pen.
one or both also carries the LAV gene. I'm wondering if one or both are also carrying an additional inhibitor gene that haven't been able to identify. Regarding the hens in this pen, they are frizzle white and the paint hens came from a group that had a white frizzle Satin rooster - I still have him and he now has exactly one black feather - so perhaps he only has one copy of dominant white. The females in his breeding group were a paint silkie and two black silkies. The white frizzle in #4 could have just one copy of dominant white, which would mean she's actually paint and just hiding her black like dad, or she could have two copies of dominant white - one from dad and one from mom if her mom was the paint hen. A while back I was asking in the self blue silkie Facebook page about the blacks having white offspring. A couple people were adamant that black can't carry any except black...but but but.... I have these white... I was reading about an additional inhibitor gene and was wondering if they could carry it, but I couldn't find an answer. It's all hard to say exactly with that group because the white roo could be white because he carries two copies of recessive white, or he could actually be a black bird with one copy of dominant white and just displays the white only... That seems unlikely though.

The lavender roo could also be the father & you could have some paint chicks that spots will come later. He's actually a black bird , and if he mates with the paint girls in this pen they'd make more paints.”