Broody Hen Thread!

[chickengeorgeto]

thanks - she is eating at the moment i put a bowl of veggies and wheat infront of her plus some sardines and she seems ok also it might have only been 3 weeks but im unsure so now im officially worried that she might die

fingers crossed she makes it - im making a thread to get more help aswell so ill put the link in this subscription

nothing can describe how worried the truth has made me

Sardines, tuna, salmon, hamburger, canned dog food, small minnows, live mice, and raw beef liver are all good for hens as well as hardboiled eggs and breeder chow or flock rearing chickenfeed. Don't forget to add a dozen or so big-old grains of good old fashioned 'Yellar' Dent Feed Corn. It'll do a hen good.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

chooks get wormed? um we might have a problem then - im new to this so what do i use to worm her?

That is actually somewhat argued in the circles of chicken owners, sometimes heatedly, but in my opinion, yes, chickens need to be wormed. No matter what your philosophy, the truth is it is MUCH easier to treat for worms when the worm load is down than try to catch up behind a high load due to how worms function.

I am of the camp, due to personal experience and evidence through my daughter's vet tech studies (as we used my flock for some lab work), that worms are constantly present in chickens. Yes, by golly my hens DID have worms although they showed no evidence. Evidence is seen typically as worms in stool, diarrhea, thin-ness, poor egg laying, or rumpled look once a heavy infestation has taken over.

To understand worming, you need to understand a bit about how the worm cycle works. The hens pick up and ingest, depending upon the worm type, the carrier or cysts or larvae when they scratch. Depending upon the worm type, it migrates through the digestive track and settles into its body part of choice to begin living off the host to grow, flourish, and create the next generation. It sends out the "seeds" of the next generation in the stool of the bird....to begin the process all over again. Sometimes a worm type will use an intermediary animal, such as an earthworm, other types are direct from stool to bird.

The hen's immune system will fight off a number of them, sending the worm itself out with the feces, but usually live, to be potentially picked up and eaten by the next hen. Then of course, there is all that wild life fluttering and scurrying through. With that thought, you can see why it is very important to keep litter changed and field rotation as much as possible so that the soil load remains as low as possible.

Since the first defense for the hen is her own immune system, It is important to keep your birds free from stress and overcrowding, with plenty of good feed and clean water.

While not helpful directly to worms, as it won't kill or expel them, applying Apple Cider Vinegar (raw, with mother, no metal waterer) to the water and regular pro-biotics, such as plain yogurt, help keep the animal's gut flora optimal, which is a main component of the immune system...it also helps keep the gut acidic which is better for keeping worms at bay...up to a point.

At some point the soil is simply going to gain a load that perpetuates an ever growing population, as does the aging bird's system. If anything stresses the hen, such as heat or cold, that lowers the immune system further, the load of the bird can increase, sometimes rather dramatically.

Brooding hens are very prone to worm build up as their immune systems are strained from the physical demands of brooding.

If you are in agreement thus far, then the question remains...what to worm with.

There are limited products on the market for chickens as the industry doesn't do a whole lot of worming...they turn over (cull) their flock regularly to keep commercial egg numbers up and disinfect and rotate fields. What they do use, and the only FDA approved wormer on the market for laying chickens used for eggs for human consumption is Hygromycin B.

Hygromycin B is added to the feed and is effective against the three most common types of worms in chickens: cecal, capillary and round. The industry uses Hygromycin B in continuous feed for the life of the bird. Backyard farmers typically treat for 2 or 3 weeks once or twice a year. The product comes as pellets that you simply place in your feeder at the appropriately measured amount. The nice thing about Hygromycin B is that there is no egg withdrawal needed.

As a small backyard farmer, you can get Hygromycin B at the feed store as either Durvet Strike III or as Rooster Booster Triple Action Multi Wormer (which also contains probiotics and vitamins/minerals for an overall immune boost, but also has Bacitracin, which is a mild antibiotic used by the industry to combat chronic respiratory illness...that nagging cough...in caged birds).

If you use your eggs for family use only, and never plan to sell eggs from that hen ever (technically speaking that is what the FDA would require), then you can ignore any legal concerns and go off label. The products used for that are:

Piperazine, sold at most feedstores as Wazine, placed typically in the water, targets only round worms (interestingly is also used as a human de-wormer).

Fenbendazole, sold as Panacur or Safeguard (for pigs), in either liquid form to be placed in water or as a paste that is measured out and administered orally...I recommend placing a bead of paste in something the bird likes to eat. Fenbendazole targets most worm types in chickens including round, cecal, capillary, tapeworm and gapeworm, although it is not approved for such in the US. (Interestingly the UK allows small farmers to use Fenbendazole for layers).

Ivermectin can be applied topically to the skin and targets most of the worm types as well as external parasites such as mites, some lice types, and scaly leg mites. It is a systemic de-wormer, so it is important to treat carefully and pull eggs. I personally do not prefer Ivermectin (which is akin to Avermectin, ant poison) as it is deadly to kittens, dogs with white feet (such as Shelties), and others who are sensitive. It targets the neural system of the worms to kill and expel, thus those who are sensitive may experience neural symptoms.

For the off label wormers, it is generally best to treat, then treat again in 10 days. Tossing eggs during and for 10 to 14 days after last treatment.

There are those who like to use herbal methods. There is some study evidence that pumpkin seeds, cayenne pepper and garlic may help to reduce the worm load inside the chicken by expelling the worms...however they are generally not dead worms, so available to be re-eaten by the next bird.

The common herbal wormers are Verm-x (main active ingredients are garlic, cayenne, slippery elm) and Molly's Herbal (wormwood predominately). Typically you are to use the preparation for 3 consecutive days each month. Molly's recommends every 6 weeks to avoid wormwood toxicity.

Many swear by and use Diatomaceous Earth (DE), food grade quality (never pool quality). I searched for years and never found any evidence of its effectiveness until recently from one small study. It is uncertain how it may work for internal worms, although it has shown effectiveness for external parasites...IF it stays dry. My qualms with DE is that it is a known respiratory irritant and can be bad for chickens and people, especially those prone to asthma (like me). So I do not use it due to the questionable effectiveness, cost, and potential of increasing my mild asthma.

I personally started with the herbals, wanting to remain "wholesome," but honestly, eventually I ended up with worms and needed to treat with "real" meds seasonally as I've been at this on the same property for over 5 years.

Since I sell some of my eggs to offset feed costs, I have chosen to stay with the Hygromycin B, usually in the form of Durvet Strike III to avoid overuse of the additional antibiotic of Rooster Booster's product, although I've used RB Triple Wormer and like it very much as it treats the worms and gives the immune boost too. I treat for 2 weeks, at least twice a year, or if I notice some runny looking bottoms (loose stools typically are my first sign).

I then try to feed my girls garlic, pumpkin seeds, and cayenne periodically, buzzed in the blender to make a crumble, which I can do pretty cheaply from bulk bin items...and I have purchased and can mix in Molly's Herbal to help as well, as that is pretty cost effective, although my birds don't seem to like the taste of it. They do like the Verm-x, but I found that very expensive with my flock number... the can is small and expensive.

Whatever you choose to use, it is generally agreed to alternate your treatment as worms can build a resistance to a certain method.

My knowledge and experiences
HTH
LofMc

 

[PD-Riverman]

and pd-riverman
so give her wazine?

Lady Of McCamley Gave some Great Info. Read what she wrote about 3 times----alot to take in and all true. Wazine is a good wormer but there is some worms that it will NOT touch---like tape worms----So My Thinking is Why Half Do a worming----I use the stuff(fenbendazole) that will get them all. Your hen might not have tape worms or hardly any worms----Then she Might be loaded---we do not know. I have Never wormed a hen while she is broody----I can not see where it would be a problem, But I never tried it.

People do things different-----"I" would Never feed my broody hen while she is sitting on the nest-----for Sure Not the Last 3 days. The last 2/3 days the hen does not want to get off the nest-----because she knows the eggs need a higher humidity to hatch----she increases the humidity by staying put. Feeding her in the nest during that time will do one of 2 things because she will have to poop----she will have to get off the nest which is not good while the eggs are hatching or she will poop in the nest which is not good because a broody hen drops a huge load and it creates a Mess for the chicks. By not feeding her in the nest the other 18 days she will keep getting off the nest to eat, drink, poop, exercise, etc. "I" would Never take her off the nest----for sure not the last 3 days nor would "I" ever tilt or lift her the last 3 days. I set many broody hens-----33 last season----"I" move all of them to a hatching pen---then I do not have to check under her for added eggs from other hens----once she is in the hatching pen-----I do not bother her at all---just feed and water. When I see her off the nest eating etc-----thats when I look at her eggs----when she is due to hatch----I check on her 2/3 times aday----just to view-----Not touch----when she comes off the nest with her chicks---If there is a egg still in the nest I look/check it to see if its pipped etc----I remove any egg/shells---clean the nest for her and her new family.

 

[n3kms]

Someone may have answered this as I did not read the 33 posts since I was on here, what yesterday?

It depends on how good your incubator and incubating skills are.

Mine are lousy...the hen is the one that knows what she is doing...so I put the best under her, as much as she can reasonably hold, then put the rest in the incubator.

I candle at day 5 to assess, then at day 10 to assess. Definitely by day 10 I am giving her the best developing and leaving the "iffy" ones in the incubators. None of my "iffys" have hatched in the incubator (although I have hatched before in them), but the lady does the best job, so I let her do it.

As stated, I'm not the best artificial incubator person, but I think the most important thing is to only set those eggs with good air cells. As to whether up or down in the incubator, that would be whatever you've had best experience with. As to the hen, she lays them flat.

But that's my set up and skills.
LofMc

I don't know about my incubator skills. I've only ever hatched twice but everything fertile but one hatched. Obviously I got a good incubator. Oh and I forgot, I did have one blood ring each time. Problem with it is that it is small. With turner it only holds 9 eggs. But without it holds maybe twice that. First time I incubated my own eggs and used turner. The second time I incubated it was shipped eggs and I had read about standing them up so in my little incubator I had to put them on the lower(hatching) shelf for them to have enough room to stand up. Then I just tilted the whole incubator back and forth. I hated having to remember to tilt. I set them last night and at the same time put two of my CCL eggs under my broody(don't tell the DH). I think after 7 days when I check, those that look good may all get moved to the broody coop. Any questionables can stay in the incubator.

 

[Sambi89]

I have a PIPPPPP on my first duck egg

! I need something to distract me for the next day so I don't hover over her like a nervous nelly.

 

[chickbrad24]

I have a PIPPPPP on my first duck egg

! I need something to distract me for the next day so I don't hover over her like a nervous nelly.

That's so exciting. I at this point have know idea how many little baby chicks hatched from my broody hen. I did catch 3 babies playing in the nest box chasing each other it was really cute.

 

[SweetEvngBreeze]

Newbie here. Been lurking since last year when we got our first chickens. Please bear with me as I learn how/where to post. I’m sure this has been asked but I’ve searched everywhere and can’t find an answer. Please redirect me if I’m in the wrong place.
I have a bantam cochin frizzle that has gone broody (silkie roo if it makes a difference). This will be my first hatch. I made an incubator that I couldn’t get to regulate. Got frustrated and bought an incubator…then she goes broody. Go figure. She’s sitting on 2 eggs. I THINK one was laid on 4/13 (let’s call it Egg A) and one was laid on 4/15 (Egg B). I have a young rooster with her so I wasn’t sure they were fertile. I candled on 4/18 thinking I had at least hit the 3 day mark. Egg B was fertile looked to be about 3-4 days along according to the great pics here. Egg A was clear (I assumed not fertile) but I let her keep it anyway and was planning on discarding it before it blew up. I candled last night. Egg B looks to be about 11 days along. To my surprise, Egg A is fertile but looks to only be on about day 6-7 days along. I marked them on day 3 so I know I don't have them mixed up.
Can this be right? How did this happen if the eggs were laid at most 2 days apart. IF I’m right about the development difference, what does this mean for hatching? Should I expect them to hatch 4-5 days apart? After the first chick is hatched will she continue to wait on the other one?
I said this was my first hatch, but technically she sat on one last year that was a quitter at 7 days.
I told my husband last night we might be expecting twins and he got excited and kept exclaiming he couldn’t figure out how that could happened. I thought I was going to have to have the Chicken and the Bees talk until I realized he thought I meant there were 2 chicks in one egg!

 

[StarMeKritten]

It's hatch day for my two first time (for them, not me) broody hens. Nothing ever seems to go smoothly though. One hen is still sitting tight on her eggs but the other has apparently decided that motherhood isn't for her and left her pipped eggs alone in the nest. Those eggs are now in my incubator. We'll see how the other hen does. If all goes well, we may give the chicks to the other hen to foster. If not, they'll just have to go into the brooder.

On a more positive note, one of our silkie pullets just laid her first egg today and one of my australorp hens appears to be going broody.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Newbie here. Been lurking since last year when we got our first chickens. Please bear with me as I learn how/where to post. I’m sure this has been asked but I’ve searched everywhere and can’t find an answer. Please redirect me if I’m in the wrong place.
I have a bantam cochin frizzle that has gone broody (silkie roo if it makes a difference). This will be my first hatch. I made an incubator that I couldn’t get to regulate. Got frustrated and bought an incubator…then she goes broody. Go figure. She’s sitting on 2 eggs. I THINK one was laid on 4/13 (let’s call it Egg A) and one was laid on 4/15 (Egg B). I have a young rooster with her so I wasn’t sure they were fertile. I candled on 4/18 thinking I had at least hit the 3 day mark. Egg B was fertile looked to be about 3-4 days along according to the great pics here. Egg A was clear (I assumed not fertile) but I let her keep it anyway and was planning on discarding it before it blew up. I candled last night. Egg B looks to be about 11 days along. To my surprise, Egg A is fertile but looks to only be on about day 6-7 days along. I marked them on day 3 so I know I don't have them mixed up.
Can this be right? How did this happen if the eggs were laid at most 2 days apart. IF I’m right about the development difference, what does this mean for hatching? Should I expect them to hatch 4-5 days apart? After the first chick is hatched will she continue to wait on the other one?
I said this was my first hatch, but technically she sat on one last year that was a quitter at 7 days.
I told my husband last night we might be expecting twins and he got excited and kept exclaiming he couldn’t figure out how that could happened. I thought I was going to have to have the Chicken and the Bees talk until I realized he thought I meant there were 2 chicks in one egg!

You probably switched the eggs when you marked them as that development would match the ages of the eggs as laid. I know I can swear I didn't switch eggs, but unless they are a different color, I've done it myself, even after taking, I swear, the utmost care.

Otherwise, if marked correctly, it is possible the other egg simply germinated more slowly...it could have not been under the hen completely and steadily the first few days, as she was still laying, and then settling after the second egg was laid, so it could have been overall cooler. The blastoderm (fertilized cell on the egg yolk) has to be at about 100 degrees for at least several hours to begin germination and kept there for development.

Last possibility is be sure you see actual veining. I have been fooled with candling if I get to a certain stage and look for air cell and dark blob, as not many veins can be seen. Sometimes the putrifying yolk sac will look like the dark blob and even produce "movement."

Assuming all is well, and you have two viable chicks, you still have a staggered hatch with a 5 day difference which typically is not good. With that much delay, usually the hen abandons the unhatched, but developing egg, to take care of the hatched chick. However, some may ignore the needs of the hatched chick to remain on the egg until it hatches. The first hatched chick will need care, and that may or may not annoy her. Some hens handle the situation well until all are hatched, and if food and water is close and the mother accepting of the hatched chick, it is possible it could work...but usually a 5 day old chick is very vigorous and likely will be disrupting the lock down phase of the hen...I think it is at this point some hens may kill the hatched chick as they view them a threat to their hatching babies.

Thus most on this thread generally discourage staggered hatches as it usually ends up with unhappy hens, lost eggs, or lost chicks.

So, what should you do? I'd continue to let the hen set with the eggs and candle to see if there really is development at day 10 and 15. You can make decisions on those days whether to keep them both going or if one has ceased development. At lock down, see if the most developed egg actually hatches. If it doesn't on day 21, then continue to wait and watch for hatching all the way to day 27 or 28, watching for signs of spoilage.

If the most developed egg does hatch, then you'll have to make a decision as to what to do with the other egg. Most hens linger on the nest for 2 more days after the first chick hatched...use that time to see if you luck out and the other hatches earlier than what you think it showed development. If momma abandons, then put that egg in the incubator to finish. If momma remains with the egg, watch for the hatched chick to make sure it is being cared for and can easily access water and food and that momma remains calm and accepting.

My thoughts
LofMc

...and Welcome to BYC!

 

[SweetEvngBreeze]

LofMC - Thank you!!! You're right...I could have marked them wrong. But I was still totally confused about the difference. Sounds like the incubator I invested in might come in handy after all.

Do you know how to tell if the big blobby one is still developing? All I see is the big blob on one side of the egg. There is an air sac on the end but since I don't know exactly what day we're on, I don't know how big it should be. I was thinking about tracing the border of the sac with pencil to see if it gets bigger. Will it continue to get bigger if the chick is dead?