Buckeye Breed Thread

[cgmccary]

Here's another that Don tells me is a little light but has nice type.

Hey Mitch, I like what you got from what I can see, I like the one in the top picture there == also like the feather shape on your birds​

 

[cgmccary]

bluface3: Those colors look really light, IMO. Goes to show the differences after 100 years. I would love to breed the buckeyes in the same image as Mrs. Metcalf saw them, but we will see how the judging depics them.

Ahh, but the color, "Mahogany Bay," after 101 years, is still the same color, unchanged. The Buckeye description is also essentially unchanged from 1910, just more refined, other than the slight variation in the under-color (see page 100-101 of 1910 SOP).

Hopefully, the judges will eventually gravitate to the correct SOP description as the dedicated breeders lead them there. There are some Buckeye breeders, including myself, who would not change or compromise just to suit the shows / judges. I will breed Buckeyes true and lose at shows rather than compromise a breed I have learned and come to love. Winning shows is not my goal. Striving to breed proper and better Buckeyes is my goal. The perfect Buckeye I will never reach. I show to expose the breed, to get it out there & hope more people become avid, excited about it, not to win shows. I could not care less about winning. I feel I understand the breed to some extent but have a long way to go. I mean this with every ounce and fiber of my being.​

 

[Chickielady]

Quote:
I don't have an incubator, so I'd be getting chicks not eggs. I think I'll purchase 5-10 chicks (Is that a good number?) and cull through them instead of getting a Trio. Because, what if during shipping one of the Trio died? Or perhaps I get three cocks?

And as I've read through this thread I noticed some people talking about 'high protein game bird feed'? Said it was because Buckeyes have a lot of meat on their bones and need protein to grow out properly. Funny thing is, I have a Buckeye hen that (hatchery bird) is pretty thin, I was thinking about giving her game bird feed since it has more protein? She's also moulting and it's nearly winter, so that could also be why she's thin, just a passing thought to give her that kind of feed.
Thank you so much for your help!

You don't need it for your hen at this point, she's an adult and is probably not going to help her gain a lot of weight. Buckeyes do best when fed a high protein feed for about the first 8 weeks, so do the game bird starter for your chicks.
Mitch

Exactly, and in addition, I worm at fall, so the birds have zero parasite load over the hard winter.
I used Ivermectin before, I am using Eprinex now.
1/2 ml on the back of the neck (topical) kills all internal and external parasites.
In addition what Punky has said, my birds at 4-5 mo are on 16-17% layer, and I throw them scratch daily, which increases their fat a bit, making them able to keep warm in winter's cold.
It also greatly increases their yellow shanks/skin.
Scratch is a pure feed, no by-products, and the birds go nuts for it.

 

[Tailfeathers]

Ok, I just hit the "Submit" button to a very long, detailed post with many comments and questions WRT to Chris' and Bluface's input and I lost it all due to some cotton-pickin' good fer nuthin' connection problem!

Man it was good too but I neither have the time nor the inclination to go back now and try to rewrite it all. So suffice it for now to say "Thanks!" for all the commentary. I think I have a picture in my head now of where I want my birds to be.

I would like it if Chris would elaborate a bit more on the "heavy skull" or "big head" as the SOP calls for a "medium head". And I'll say that I like my heads to be a bit wider than what they maybe should be. Just don't know but I like them to have a uniform look to them when viewed from the front and back due to the wide body.

Also, wanted to tell you guys that you're really blessed to be able to bend the ear of some of the long-time, poultry greats and it reminds me that I need to call Dennis Pearce's son early next year and see if we can get together again. Dennis' son is showing his Buckeyes. Not sure if he goes outside WA or not but I need to have another longer, more detailed conversation with him about our Buckeyes.

There's a lot more stuff I had written and would've like to have passed on and asked but now I gotta go make my rounds and tuck everyone in for the night...

God Bless,

 

[Arielle]

Sorry tailfeathers-- I lost a post too. Frustrating.

Chris-- are you talking about Gilroy, the other judge that works with Don Schrider? I'm pulling that name out of my proverbial hat ! LOL

 

[Blueface]

Quote:
Ahh, but the color, "Mahogany Bay," after 101 years, is still the same color, unchanged. The Buckeye description is also essentially unchanged from 1910, just more refined, other than the slight variation in the under-color (see page 100-101 of 1910 SOP).

Hopefully, the judges will eventually gravitate to the correct SOP description as the dedicated breeders lead them there. There are some Buckeye breeders, including myself, who would not change or compromise just to suit the shows / judges. I will breed Buckeyes true and lose at shows rather than compromise a breed I have learned and come to love. Winning shows is not my goal. Striving to breed proper and better Buckeyes is my goal. The perfect Buckeye I will never reach. I show to expose the breed, to get it out there & hope more people become avid, excited about it, not to win shows. I could not care less about winning. I feel I understand the breed to some extent but have a long way to go. I mean this with every ounce and fiber of my being.

The color may be true according to the book, but it doesn't seem to have the luster/shine that the buckeye should have. The color looks rather muddy when next to black. At any rate, I'll breed our buckeyes keeping the glowing color of the buckeye nut. Going to pages 100-101 as you pointed out. the shape of the body intregues me. I've seen all kinds of different ways these birds carry their tails as well as the length of the streamers/versus mains. The male bird pictured carries it much lower than the representation of the buckeye in many buckeye pictures/logos. It should be noted that streamers are not much longer than the mains. The comb is pretty small also. Todays buckeyes tend to have a larger comb in comparison to the 1910 buckeye, that sits higher off of the head. The opposite can be said of the wattles. Todays wattles are appearing smaller in size.
Going to the female, the same can be said of the tail and a huge point can be made about the level/flat backs. I've seen many buckeyes that are starting to carry a hump or tuft on their backs which leads to a flat tail carriage/angle. That is wrong by definition, IMO. The shape/width of the head appears to be different than the depicted buckeye of today when looking at the pictures. The eyes don't have the desired inset of todays birds. I'm not an expert, but just looking outside the box and making observable comparisions. This breed as been around more than 100 years, but yet we have so many variations or interpertations. Mrs. Metcalf is no longer around (obviously), with all of the variations; it will be interesting which interperations "win" out.

When Sydney and I show birds, we show the very best we have that day. They have to be perfect in everyway, in our opinion. I think sticking a bird in a pen just to shove him in a pen regardless of feather condition doesn't show the breed respect. A crappy looking bird does nothing for the breed when we as exhibitors are trying to promote them. The lighter birds often (very often) don't look uniform in color. In our flock, the darker birds come uniform and that is what generally goes. I kill/cull all of the lighter ones. I don't think we could get a uniform "lighter" colored buckeye that looks "good".
At any rate, we'll continue forth exhibiting glossy, buckeye nut colored-buckeyes. More judges than not tell me that is the proper representation of the color. The color I'm refering to is the color of the bird that I posted a few pages back that Bill Wulff provided. That is what we are breeding toward. Every single large show (greater than 1500 birds) Sydney has ever been in with her buckeyes, she has placed either best of breed or reserve of breed. There have been several buckeyes in these shows. She has never lost the american class at fair time. With all of that success, we can't be that far off.
Have a good one

 

[knittychickadee]

Bluface, Do you have any photos of that bird outside, in the sun; and what does he weigh?

 

[Blueface]

Quote:
There is a picture of one on pg 337, Sydney is holding him. Another one is below. His legs look a little bit pink, but that is due to the veins in his legs. The cock bird is pretty healthy. All healthy light legged chickens should have that color in their legs. He is in the moult, so his feather condition isn't the best and obviously not in full feather, but you can see the color of his new feathers. Beautiful and buckeye nut colored. I generally don't like putting pictures of birds that are in the moult on the net. They can get pretty rough looking. Cocks weigh roughly 9 lbs and cockerels are roughly 8 lbs, give or take a couple ounces.

Agreed, that pic was taken in an overcast. It is raining today, so this weekend I can get a picture of one in direct sunlight. The color doesn't change, but they look more glossy.

 

[punky rooster]

Quote:
Hey Mitch, I like what you got from what I can see, I like the one in the top picture there == also like the feather shape on your birds

Hi,
Yeah, I'm happy with what I got considering I only got ten chicks. Mr. Rhodes has got the type pretty well down, but there is some black in the hackles. I'll work on that after I get the growth rate I want. Both will come with hatching and culling.

I do agree with you about the Buckeye color. I didn't get into Buckeyes for show, I wanted them for their personality, color, size, and dual purpose ability, but it's something I want to try (showing, that is). Aren't too many Buckeyes up here, only a couple from Jason Page in shows.

Arielle, Poul Gilroy is his name, not sure if he's a judge.

 

[Blueface]

there is some black in the hackles.

Phil Bartz, a very well respected judge told me that it was Ok to have black in the hackles of the females. It helps promote the deep color in the males. Mrs. Metcalf refered to it in her letters/papers years ago from what I have read/interperted. She selected those birds. Tim Bowles another well respected judge had no objections to it either. Mr. Brown openly admits that it is very important to have black in the hackles and in no place in literature does it ever state otherwise.

Mitch the pullet in the top picture looks great, IMO.

Just food for thought.​