Buckling down and backwards building ccop

[TimonHens]

Of course I have chicks already and no place built to put them! Like you (shouldn't) do. But I am sure I will prevail with neurodiversity and a due date! Like you do.
So ignoring the pile of irregular pallets out back...

Going to aim for 8x12 feet with the shorter side facing south in 5b.
I anticipate 20 birds or less, depending on how many roos I end up with.

Ordinance says I have a right to farm and no permits are needed to erect unwired structures under 100sqft like play houses and sheds. Fencing must be 6ft or lower.
I have a murder dog who would like very much to hold the babies in her mouth and thrash them.soundly. She's not allowed to roam but her current fenced in area includes where the coop will sit, convenient to the back door and shaded by a venerable crabapple to the west. There is plenty of yard for the birds to free range but they'd have to share with foxes.

So part of playing silly fence games is figuring out how to elevate the floor sufficient to use the underside of the coop as an sheltered enclosed run during foul weather days for whichever birds are up for it. But also having enough space in the interior for necessaries plus ventilation headroom.

I am thinking concrete deck blocks with a 5 inch rise and 19 inches of 4x4 (5 per post) for about 24 inches clearance. And mulch.
3 4x8 osb should give me the floor coverage I want...but

I have no idea how to connect the layers I see in my head on paper or with tools.

So right now I'm talking out loud, since I have an entire month to figure it out...

 

[saysfaa]

A few observations.

24" of clearance is a little less than most adults need to crawl on hands and knees. So getting something out (an egg or chicken maybe) will mean army crawling through poop to get to it.

It is a little less than chickens like, also. They can theoretically fit but don't much - at least mine don't and they don't have much other space (8x10 for 5; about half is 24-36" high due to three tables (the poop board, the table the nests are on, and one more table.

Hm, how do you plan to clean under there? And keep snow out?

May I propose an alternative? I live in a similar zone, made a variation, and adore how well it works. https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/woods-style-house-in-the-winter.445004/#post-5566206

Basically, the open front allows the "sheltered enclosed run" inside the coop and the wind can't come in enough to push rain or drop snow inside because the three solid sides give it no where to go. At the same time, it has enough air circulation from the amount of open square feet and convection to easily carry the moisture and ammonia away.

 

[saysfaa]

I don't understand your plans for the run. The chickens will share the dog's space for their run? Or they will free range outside the dog's space, it is just their coop that will be in the dog's space?

Do you mean your dog by the "foxes" they will share space with?

8x12 is big enough for 20 chickens only if they can spend the majority of daylight hours in a bigger space. It doesn't allow margin for keeping them in for things such as bad weather, fixing a fence or drainage problem, or letting a dog out for a few hours.

Ten square feet per chicken for the run is the smallest that has a reasonable chance of working. That minimum doesn't allow margin for integrating new birds. Either actually new birds (if you wanted to try a different breed, replace a loss, ect) or perceived new birds (if one needs to heal from an injury, is separated to brood, ect).

 

[mowin]

The best way to elevate your coop is to set poles in the ground and build your platform at whatever height you prefer. This works great if the area is sloped. Easy to insure the floor is level. The challenge for some is to make sure your poles are set square and plumb.

If I'm reading your post correct, your options are to free range in the fence where your dog would be happy to kill them, or free range outside the fence where the fox, coyotes, coon, ECT will be happy to kill them? The underside of the coop will not be enough space as a run. So be prepared to play silly fence games.

 

[TimonHens]

Thank you! I am here for the voices of experience.

24" of clearance is a little less than most adults need to crawl on hands and knees. So getting something out (an egg or chicken maybe) will mean army crawling through poop to get to it.

It is a little less than chickens like, also. They can theoretically fit but don't much - at least mine don't and they don't have much other space (8x10 for 5; about half is 24-36" high due to three tables (the poop board, the table the nests are on, and one more table.

Hm, how do you plan to clean under there? And keep snow out?

The land is classified as sloping fen. I was going to skip straight to mulch. A portion of the fence would need the ability to pivot for raking. Wind and weather, I was thinking tarps, maybe some hay bales.
I currently have a small child who would likely get drafted.

May I propose an alternative? I live in a similar zone, made a variation, and adore how well it works. https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/woods-style-house-in-the-winter.445004/#post-5566206

That is very northeast! Color me intrigued.
What did you vary?

 

[3KillerBs]

Welcome to BYC. If you put your general location into your profile people will be able to give you better-targeted advice when you ask questions.

Here's some general information for you:

The Usual Guidelines

For each adult, standard-sized hen you need:

• 4 square feet in the coop (.37 square meters)
• 10 square feet in the run (.93 square meters),
• 1 linear foot of roost (.3 meters),
• 1/4 of a nest box,
• And 1 square foot (.09 square meters) of permanent, 24/7/365 ventilation, preferably located over the birds' heads when they're sitting on the roost.

20 hens

• 80 square feet in the coop. 8'x10' is the most practical because 7'x12' or 6'x14' require a lot of weird cuts.
• 20 feet of roost
• 200 square feet in the run. 10'x20', 12'x16' or 8'x25' as suits the land available.
• 20 square feet of ventilation.
• 5 nest boxes.

 

[saysfaa]

To gain the support of my husband, I had to build it so it did not look like a chicken coop. He thinks that would lower the property value when we sell. I don't agree with that but decided I could essentially build woods' coop (like that link) inside a shed if my variation didn't work. I had Prince T Woods' book to help, he explained the concept and had a few designs in it using the open air principal. Thankfully my version worked.

This is my build thread https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...chickens-so-feedback-is-very-welcome.1448462/

I have a few other build threads saved that have better blue prints of the half monitor style if you would like them.

 

[3KillerBs]

P.S. The above numbers are generally considered minimums. Here's a great article on why you shouldn't depend too heavily on them.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/how-much-room-do-chickens-need.66180/

 

[Ridgerunner]

no permits are needed to erect unwired structures under 100sqft like play houses and sheds. Fencing must be 6ft or lower.

If you cover the run 6' is really low. You'll likely have to bend to work in there, especially if it sags or you have a supporting structure. If you cover it would that create a wired structure?

I have a murder dog who would like very much to hold the babies in her mouth and thrash them.soundly. She's not allowed to roam but her current fenced in area includes where the coop will sit, convenient to the back door and shaded by a venerable crabapple to the west.

You'll need a good fence between the dog and the chickens. A big dog can tear hardware cloth. I'd suggest you use something like 2x4 welded wire to keep your dog out. But also you need a small enough mesh to keep the chickens from going through. Make sure the dog or the chickens cannot go under the fence, even if they dig.

There is plenty of yard for the birds to free range but they'd have to share with foxes.

Not sure where to go with this as I don't really understand what you are talking about.

So part of playing silly fence games is figuring out how to elevate the floor sufficient to use the underside of the coop as an sheltered enclosed run during foul weather days for whichever birds are up for it. But also having enough space in the interior for necessaries plus ventilation headroom.

I personally would not elevate the floor unless the slope was really steep. You need to be able to access everywhere the chickens can go. With an 8 x 12 building that would mean crawling in chicken poop. You might be able to pour a concrete footing with a little excavation or build a level foundation with cinder blocks. A lot depends on how steep that slope is. The problem with posts is getting them square, plumb, and level. Level is probably the hardest. If you try trimming the top of a post it can be challenging to get it square. The way I'd do it would be to use a treated 4x6 or 6x6 and get it as close as I could, then run a 2x10 or 2x12 at the top of the posts on edge, attaching them to the side of the posts. It's pretty easy to level that way.

If you feel you must have the space under the building for the chickens I'd use posts and elevate it more than 24". You will probably still be crawling under there but 24" is really low.

So right now I'm talking out loud, since I have an entire month to figure it out...

Building an 8x12 building isn't something you can do overnight unless you have help, especially if you need a special foundation. Life has a way of getting in the way of schedules. I know you are joking about it but you are already late. I wish you luck.

 

[TimonHens]

This is drafting weird on my phone, apologies for the learning curve.
Silly fence games would include reworking the yard so that the dog gets a wider perimeter with the chicken run enclosed within. Welded wire is what we are using now and does well for the dog. I would be doubling up on the chicken side with either chicken wire or plastic mesh, perhaps both, in addition to the 2x4 wire. Dog may want to play with chickens, but is a funsized GSDx and does protect the yard. Have not seen any day time wildlife, but assume that of the birds range too far they will attract predation opportunity at random times.

Never intended for under coop to be the only exterior space. Just foul weather space. Currently leaning towards a wire chunnel from coop to the defunct garden which is 20x20 when enclosed and has 6ft fencing (and 5 ft of weeds). Barring that I can fence in the proposed chunnel area. It was a micro orchard and is already iffy on grass and plenty shady. That raises a question about letting the birds into the trees.

For interior, what is the cross between ventilation square footage on exterior walls and the cubic footage of empty space above the roosting bars?

Was going for 6 nesting boxes on the west wall and 2 roosting bars full length across the east. The ground is actually not horribly sloped but has weird level issues. The desire to elevate was mostly to get the predator protection plus additional square footage.
Definitely giving me 3rd thoughts there.