Buff Orpingtons From Different Hatcheries

[WiderHorizons]

Can anyone describe their experiences with Buff Orpingtons or Black Jersey Giants from Ideal, Cackle, Meyer, and/or McMurray ... in detail?

Specifically, I want to know, if anyone can tell me:

1. How big are they? Mature buffs are supposed to be 8-10 lb; giants, 10-13 lb. I know they're terribly fluffy, and that distorts things.
2. How big were their eggs? Compared to store-bought. (Grade 'large'.)
3. Did they go broody? If so, how many out of the flock of how big [of Orpingtons]?
4. When did they start laying?
5. How many eggs a week did they lay? And how many weeks of the year? [Trying to get an idea of the annual production.]
6. How were their temperaments? Were both the hens and the roosters nice?
7. Did they forage well?
8. Did they seem reasonably intelligent? Would they be able to hide from a predator, or get back into the coop when they'd come out?
9. Of those that went broody (if any), did they sit well, or did they abandon their eggs?
10. Of those that hatched eggs (if any), were they good mamas?
11. Did the roosters take care of their hens?
12. Were the roosters fertile?
13. Were they hardy to heat/cold/random chicken ailments and weaknesses?
14. If you slaughtered any of your chickens, did they yield well for their weight, or were they mostly bone and feathers?

I hope that's not too much! Thank you!

 

[Acre4Me]

Mature buffs are supposed to be 8-10 lb; giants, 10-13 lb.

Your weights are correct for female and male minimum weights per the APA.

Why are you only looking at the big hatcheries? You indicated in your intro thread that you want to have self-sustaining dual-purpose (so meat aspect is important).

You may have some NPIP near to you. Look at this link to search by state.
http://www.poultryimprovement.org/statesContent.cfm

stock codes are used, and they are linked on the left side of the link above. The general categories are below, so you will be interested in a few, but dual-purpose will be "R"

We purchased some birds from Meyer - nice overall, no complaints, but not sure about meeting standards. For example, the Faverolle we got was way too dark for a female (and yes, it was a female).

We purchased some very nice BJG from Eagle Nest Hatchery in Oceola OH. They are listed as Exhibition Quality, and appear to be nice representations of the breed. However, their Buff Orps are not listed as exhibition quality, and I have no experience with that breed, anyway.

Good Luck! Maybe you can find some good resources near you.

 

[WiderHorizons]

Thank you for your reply!

I was trying to narrow the questions down in hopes of getting more and also more refined responses. I was also afraid that my initial thread was too broad and maybe not very coherent. I've got a lot going on in my head; I didn't mean to be obnoxious or impatient.

I've read that when you buy from a breeder you're still going to have to cull hard. Their chicks are sold straight run only, and they cost $9-25, sometimes more, instead of $3-4.

So as a broad base of decent utilitarian genetics, I thought perhaps a large flock of hens from two different hatcheries. Then, if they weren't good enough on their own, a smaller flock of straight run from several breeders, and the goal would be instead to get a few superb roosters out of the bunch to put over the absolute best of the hatchery hens. But I'd have a very good spread of genetics, that way, and not likely to have too many inbreeding problems.

I'm prepared to accept that I may not be able to get what I need from a hatchery, but economics demand that I at least ask and see if anyone has gotten the genetics that I'm looking for. It's a lot easier to cull massive numbers of cheap hens than tons of expensive roosters! At least they'll lay eggs for a while, right?

But now, if you can tell me that, with certain breeders, I'll only have to cull 1 out of 2 instead of 4 out of 5, that might sway me. I'd still have better than even odds of getting a lot of expensive roosters, though.

 

[WiderHorizons]

Also, there have been some reviews given to these hatcheries - particularly Cackle, Meyer, and McMurray - that made me hopeful that out of a large flock I could get what I'm after.

I've read mostly good things about Meyer's Buff Orpingtons, but nothing much about their size, and the little I did read gave me concern that they might be too small.

Cackle's birds are described as being large, and some claims of their doing well in shows (against what, though), but no mention of any of them sitting, and no mention of how large their eggs are.

I'm also beginning to wonder about Wyandottes - I was afraid they'd be too small, not meaty enough, and that their eggs wouldn't be big enough. But I've also read that 'medium' can be the same as the store-bought definition of 'large', which would be sufficient for me. But I think that might be yet another thread.

 

[Trux]

I got 6 Orps from McMurray a few years back 3 buffs and 3 whites of those I have 3 left. 1 white I found dead next to the water fountain she was 4 months the other white died of heat last summer, the only bird I have lost to that issue. and one buff to late onset of marecks. The 2 buffs I have left are small for orps and not the round ball shaped you normally see and the one white I do have left is a normal stout bird but again not really shaped like an orp should be. All 3 are good layers, nice large eggs, but they are hatchery birds, and not what my heritage orps look like.

 

[Acre4Me]

Thank you for your reply!

YW!

But now, if you can tell me that, with certain breeders, I'll only have to cull 1 out of 2 instead of 4 out of 5, that might sway me. I'd still have better than even odds of getting a lot of expensive roosters, though.

Nope - anyone who is experienced with this (and I am not a breeder, nor trying to improve a breed) will tell you that you need to cull hard when improving.


Sometimes you find a good source that is inexpensive. For example, Eagle Nest has the BJG in limited quantities, and they don't advertise them on their website, but you can call and ask for them. They are exhibition quality and based on what the APA says and from the pictures of standards, this source does have really good quality BJG. We have an SLW from them - not listed as exhibition quality and our SLW is certainly not anywhere near standard for appearance (lacing is very tricky to get beautiful), but she is a good hen.

I have an order in with Sandhill preservation. We want to try different breeds. Many of theirs are "rare" and they are trying to preserve the genetics. They have been working with many of their lines for years. They only sell straight run, so others can breed them. But, their chick costs weren't too bad at all, and their assortment costs are very reasonable. I don't have the chicks yet, so I cant say anything about their quality. But, they were a more affordable source for some unique or hard to find breeds, so that is why we chose them.

Your idea of getting chicks from different sources is valid. But, from what I've read on here, you can do a lot of improving within a line, without the need to bring in new blood right away. I'm no expert here, but others are. @Cyprus come to mind, but I know there are others on BYC that have a good handle on chicken genetics.

 

[WiderHorizons]

All 3 are good layers, nice large eggs, but they are hatchery birds, and not what my heritage orps look like.

Thank you! Where did you get your heritage orps? Can you describe them - how they're different? Are they actually heavier, or just bigger? Do they lay well?

@Acre4Me, thank you again! Very helpful. I've actually ordered seeds from Sand Hill, but they had a lot of trouble last year and still haven't quite recovered from all of that. Maybe by the time I'm ready to place an order, they'll have things straightened out.

Eagle's Nest sounds very worthy of consideration.

That last you said about improving within a line - that is why I initially posted over in the Breeding to Standard forum. But I worried that that forum was just for people who wanted to show their birds.

 

[Cyprus]

I've had both BO and BJG pullets, but from a local hatchery and Hoovers. BO were tiny.... Like barely double the size of my Leghorns. The BJG are big, but only 1/4 the size of what they should be. Very reliable layers but never been broody.

I agree line breeding from stock purchased from an APA SOP breeder is the best option.

 

[MandaH]

My most recent Buff Orpington was from Townline Hatchery. She was a moderate layer who went broody twice before spontaneously dying. Very nice hen though.

 

[Acre4Me]

thank you again! Very helpful. I've actually ordered seeds from Sand Hill, but they had a lot of trouble last year and still haven't quite recovered from all of that. Maybe by the time I'm ready to place an order, they'll have things straightened out.

I ordered seeds from them this year and they have all had very good germination, but as to how they do long term, we will see! They overfill their seed packets, so I appreciated that!

Sandhill definitely had some real issues last year - wife had emergency surgery that was botched, then more surgeries to fix the botched surgery, followed by months and months in long term care facilities. Wife is home and on the mend, but still not yet fully 100%. From reading the updates on the website, it was like having their right arm removed and still trying to just maintain what was needed. Then there was the crafty mink(s) that were working overtime on some of their breeding stock, but sounds like that problem has been mitigated. Although we were aware of these problems, we figured we could get a variety of breeds to try, and looks like 2019 should shape up to be a better year (better than 2018 anyway). I'll see what arrives when our chicks are shipped. We should be getting our chicks next week, but I won't know until they call - we indicated any ship date was fine, so we won't know we are getting chicks till they call.