Building and working with Columbian Patterned Birds

[nicalandia]

Columbian breeds can be based on eb/eb(brown) e+/e+(wildtype) eWh/eWh(wheaten) ey/ey(recessive wheaten) due to the melanizing effect of ER/ER(Birchen) and E/E(extended Black) thy cant be used as based....

the rest of their genome is Co/Co(Columbian, Restrictor) S/S(Sex Linked Dominant Silver) and the rest of their genome remaining wiltype in nature(like bl+, b+, db+, mh+ and so forth) you should try to avoid crossing Red enhanced birds with them(gold s+ and/or mahogany) becuase this down the line will produce Rusty males that will show some straw coloring on the hackle, so if doing an outcross it is best to use Silver birds that lack red enhancers

 

[Rancher3535]

I definately will be asking questions. I'm mostly waiting for things to start laying right and maybe do a test breeding or two then I'll know what to ask.
I appreciate you starting this thread.

Randy

Did you say you had large or bantams light Brahmas? I hear you on the laying part. The ones I want to set up in pens are not laying and the one I could care less about are popping them out left and right. Do you run lights on them for at least 12-14 hours? I just started a month ago on my RC Reds so it will be another month before they start in I am sure. I can hardly wait to start hatching although the other half would like me to not hatch a single chick. LOL I just start and all of a sudden someone goes out to the barn and see and ask when did you get those chicks? (Brooder is in the barn/which is the pump house and cellar.

Rob

 

[3riverschick]

Columbian breeds can be based on eb/eb(brown) e+/e+(wildtype) eWh/eWh(wheaten) ey/ey(recessive wheaten) due to the melanizing effect of ER/ER(Birchen) and E/E(extended Black) thy cant be used as based....

the rest of their genome is Co/Co(Columbian, Restrictor) S/S(Sex Linked Dominant Silver) and the rest of their genome remaining wiltype in nature(like bl+, b+, db+, mh+ and so forth) you should try to avoid crossing Red enhanced birds with them(gold s+ and/or mahogany) becuase this down the line will produce Rusty males that will show some straw coloring on the hackle, so if doing an outcross it is best to use Silver birds that lack red enhancers

nicalandia,
Do all the other locuses except eWh require color balancing in the underfluff?
Thanks,
Karen

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
thats a good question, but since I dont breed them I have no Empirical knowledge on them, I am more of a genetic calculator, I hardly do any breeding now..(no land to do so)

 

[draye]

Did you say you had large or bantams light Brahmas? I hear you on the laying part. The ones I want to set up in pens are not laying and the one I could care less about are popping them out left and right. Do you run lights on them for at least 12-14 hours? I just started a month ago on my RC Reds so it will be another month before they start in I am sure. I can hardly wait to start hatching although the other half would like me to not hatch a single chick. LOL I just start and all of a sudden someone goes out to the barn and see and ask when did you get those chicks? (Brooder is in the barn/which is the pump house and cellar.

Rob

They are LF. Yes, I run lights on them. When I purchased tehm they were just to the point of laying so I figured that winter set them back a bit. However I did get 2 eggs from them this week. The most in week ever actually they were jsut laying about 1 in 2 to 3 week period. I have heard that Brahmas aren't known as great layers anyway.

Mine need some work on the leg feathers. I do live in Arkansas so most folks aren't going to know if the feahters on the legs are right anyway. They just want Rhode Island Reds (any old red chicken) or Domineckers (any old barred chicken). I really do want to get better lfeathers on the legs though, just because they are suppose to be that way.


Randy

 

[Rancher3535]

You amaze me with your knowledge of the ... bl+, b+, db+, mh+ EbW... I hope one of these days to learn it. At the moment it is just confusing to me so maybe over time you can put it into a way I can understand it. Think I need a Chicken Genetics for Dummies Book. All the years I have been breeding have been only via visual signs instead of genetic understandings.

SO....first question or two...How do I know exactly what my Columbian Wyandottes have?

Examples of goals and crossing to obtain the goals:

Goals:
1. To build a good heritage style wyandotte
2. To gain good egg size
3. Maintain a good under color
4. Keep a good rose comb.

I have seen people try the examples below but not sure of the outcome.

Commercial Columbian Wyandottes to Commercial Wyandotte would have or be?
What kind of problems would you see in the future?
I would think you would have a hard time building size and confirmation out of them as well as fight the constant inverted spike they tend to carry.

Columbian Wyandotte crossed with a White Wyandotte would have or be?
What kind of problems would you see in the future?
I would think the main battle here would be getting a good under-color. The WW's white under-color be the dominate or would the columbian or just split it evenly?

Columbian Wyandotte crossed with a Silver Laced Wyandotte would have or be?
What kind of problems would you see in the future?
Both the white and silver laced wyandottes have excellent type but with the silver laced you would not have the under-color issue but would have to deal with the ticking and moons left from the lacing.


Columbian Wyandotte crossed with a Light Brahma would have or be?
What kind of problems would you see in the future?
Would not have to deal with color for the most part but would have to deal with the comb and feathers on the legs and shanks. I would think that egg size would be an issue too because most of the Light Brahmas That I have seen usually were laying small to medium sized eggs with a few large.

Hope people understand I am just trying to get this thread going and to get people to chat about chickens.
Rob

 

[Rancher3535]

They are LF. Yes, I run lights on them. When I purchased tehm they were just to the point of laying so I figured that winter set them back a bit. However I did get 2 eggs from them this week. The most in week ever actually they were jsut laying about 1 in 2 to 3 week period. I have heard that Brahmas aren't known as great layers anyway.

Mine need some work on the leg feathers. I do live in Arkansas so most folks aren't going to know if the feahters on the legs are right anyway. They just want Rhode Island Reds (any old red chicken) or Domineckers (any old barred chicken). I really do want to get better lfeathers on the legs though, just because they are suppose to be that way.


Randy

Great! Love people who raise large fowl. Takes a lot more space time and money to raise them but so well worth it.

Often when you move birds to a new location or even pen they will stop laying and start up again. My Barred Rock pullets started to lay in Oct and I moved them to a different pen about two pens down with their mom's and pooff they quit and have not started back up yet. Makes me kind of mad but oh well what can you do except wait. No matter where you live most people just want a bird who is going to lay and could careless if it was an APA/ABA type of bird or just a plan ole hatchery run. It takes a lot of talking to them before they understand the difference. I teach a class in back yard poultry and your garden here in Boise ID. Most people have not a clue about what they are getting into but I explain to them as best I can and try to get them started off correctly. That would include taking a commercial Barred rock and Rhode Island red and set them next to a APA heritage breed Barred Rock and Rhode Island Red.

You are correct in that Brahmas are layers but they are not prolific like most of the American breeds or commercial breeds. Who did you get your original start from? Breeder or Hatchery? If you ever get a chance to talk to Larry or Mark Peterson in MN about there Brahmas make sure you take good notes. I could kick myself for all the times I have talked to good breeders and old time breeders and not written down what we had discussed thinking my ole brain would remember. NOT! LOL

Talk to you soon...
Rob

 

[snowbird]

just a quick thought here. You can take the Light Sussex out of the mix and do your breeding with the same concept. The Light Sussex have basically a white under color and the others have a Slate under color. Don

 

[draye]

Great! Love people who raise large fowl. Takes a lot more space time and money to raise them but so well worth it.

Often when you move birds to a new location or even pen they will stop laying and start up again. My Barred Rock pullets started to lay in Oct and I moved them to a different pen about two pens down with their mom's and pooff they quit and have not started back up yet. Makes me kind of mad but oh well what can you do except wait. No matter where you live most people just want a bird who is going to lay and could careless if it was an APA/ABA type of bird or just a plan ole hatchery run. It takes a lot of talking to them before they understand the difference. I teach a class in back yard poultry and your garden here in Boise ID. Most people have not a clue about what they are getting into but I explain to them as best I can and try to get them started off correctly. That would include taking a commercial Barred rock and Rhode Island red and set them next to a APA heritage breed Barred Rock and Rhode Island Red.

You are correct in that Brahmas are layers but they are not prolific like most of the American breeds or commercial breeds. Who did you get your original start from? Breeder or Hatchery? If you ever get a chance to talk to Larry or Mark Peterson in MN about there Brahmas make sure you take good notes. I could kick myself for all the times I have talked to good breeders and old time breeders and not written down what we had discussed thinking my ole brain would remember. NOT! LOL

Talk to you soon...
Rob

I found them at an auction. I have no ideal if they were breed by the person that sold them or not. I do however think that they were originally hatchery birds though. They have fairly good size on them (not really sure about the weight because I have no scale to weigh them on). They also don't have enough feather on the legs and feet as I already mentioned.

Are the Peterson's on BYC?

 

[Rancher3535]

I am not sure if Mark or Larry are on BYC. You would have to go into one of the threads for Brahmas and ask around. I can get you their info form an older APA yearbook.

Rob