Building and working with Columbian Patterned Birds

[nicalandia]

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first.. I am walking chicken Calculator, by looking at a bird phenotype(looks) I can predict its genome(genes inside of a bird) and predict outcomes of different crosses... But I am not good with Type and show breeding, so I will try my best.. 1. Commercial Columbian Wyandotte x with Commercial Wyandotte(what type of wyandotte?) 2. Columbian Wyandotte crossed with White Wyandotte would produce more Columbian Wyandotted looking birds why? we would need to understand the genetics of such birds.. white wyandottes are recessive white(c/c) and eb/eb and co+/co+ meaning mostly wildtype and recessive in all of its genes. they have white under color because of recessive white, Columbian Wyandottes are C+/C+(dominant wildtype counter part of recessive white) eb/eb and Co/Co(dominant Columbian restrictor counterpart of wildtype co+/co+) so a cross of them is going to yiel eb/eb Co/co+ C+/c so basically a Columbian Bird. Columbian Wyandotte crossed with a Silver Laced Wyandotte would produce more Silver laced Wyandotte(the lacing will be incomplete or not as sharp) why? lets examine the SLW genome they are eb/eb Co/Co Pg/Pg Ml/Ml and S/S for silver ofcource..as stated before the genome of Columbian wyandottes is eb/eb Co/Co pg+/pg+ ml/+ml+ and S/S for Silver columbian(buff columbian have the same genes escept for gold s+/s+) so any possible cross will hatch eb/eb Co/Co Pg/pg+ Ml/ml+ S/S any cross with light brahma would not be good at all for type and comb..

 

[nicalandia]

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why would you take the Light sussex out? its a columbian based bird. except it has Wheaten instead of eb(brown) thats why they have white under color

 

[Rancher3535]

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I am not sure Nicalandia probably could explain better. With the Sussex breed you would have issues not only with the under color but also comb and especially leg color. Columbian Wyandottes, like most American breeds (not all) are to have yellow legs. For me that is an issue I already have is getting the legs yellow enough. Mine tend to be a paste yellow not a good dark yellow.

mixing in is the fight of leg color. They have a lighter leg color kind of a pink. Sorry if I do not know the exact term. I have seen only a couple of the sussex and that is what it looked like to me.

 

[Rancher3535]

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WOW
Back to the dummie issue of me ... what is the difference between an upper case and lower case letter? I just want to totally understand and learn so home you are ok with my dummie questions back at you.

What is an eb/eb? I know that it deals with a very specific trait but what trait?
Co/Co
Pg/Pg
MI/MI

Thanks again for jumping in and teaching...
ROB

 

[nicalandia]

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I am Nicalandia.. and leg color or skin color for that matter has nothing to do with the columbian pattern which I believe the OP wanted to talk about

 

[nicalandia]

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Capital letters means Dominance of the gene, lower cases means recessive, the plues(+) sign means wildtype in nature, as found on the Red Jungle fowl.. so Co/co+ means one copy of Dominant Columbian and one copy of its recessive wildtype counter part that does not restrict a birds bird.. now there are Dominant genes that are also wildtype like Ig+ which is the wildtype counter part of ig(the cream gene that turns gold into cream as in citroen hamburgs) Pg(dominant Pattern gene) pg+ its the recessive wildtype counterpart Ml(dominant Melanotic gene) ml+ is the recessive wildtype counterpart

 

[Rancher3535]

How do you get better under color in the Columbians? I have heard several different things and wanted to know if it is true.

1. Put a male that had dark under color on a light or white under colored female.
2. Put a male that has light under color on a female that has dark under color.
3. Put a male who is clean across the back with a female that has some ticking on the back?

So is there any truth to this?

I am going through all of my pullets tomorrow and will try and take some pictures of the under color and ticking in case I am calling it something it is not.

Rob

 

[Rancher3535]

Sharing a Conversation between Yard full o' rocks (Scott) and myself about Columbian pattern
Rancher3535

Scott,
A couple of questions for you if you don't mind...
How do you get better under color in the Columbians? I have heard several different things and wanted to know if it is true.
1. Put a male that had dark under color on a light or white under colored female.
2. Put a male that has light under color on a female that has dark under color.
3. Put a male who is clean across the back with a female that has some ticking on the back?

So is there any truth to this?

Thanks,
Rob

Yard full o' rocks
Rob

Undercolor is a really tricky thing.....once it gets too light its really hard to get back

SO, I always keep a few "mossy backed" females (black bleeding thru). These tend to be overly dark in undercolor. I will breed them to a properly colored male and it seems to help maintain the proper undercolor.

Also, you can use a male that has almost solid black primaries (lacks the lacing the standard calls for) over a well colored female.

In columbian, your show birds will not be your breeders and your breeders will not be your show birds.....its just the way it is with this pattern
Rancher3535

What do you consider a mossy back chicken?

I have some pictures of different pullets back that I will post. Which would you consider a mossy back or do I have any?

Yard full o' rocks

Mossy backed is just "black showing thru where it should be solid white"
If you want to post it over on the Columbian thread, you are welcome to....the info I shared with you came from a long time breeder of Light Brahmas (same color pattern)

Pictures
Clean Back?
I would consider this a fairly clean back on this pullet.

Mossy Back?
I have always called this a ticking but is it mossy?

Your comments are greatly appreciated.
Rob

 

[Rancher3535]

Here is a picture of three birds that might help.

Mossy back?...to white(she has zip under color) and good color for a back.

 

[Rancher3535]

How important is wing color? What does wing do to help build pattern?
Here are some examples of some wings good, bad, or indifferent.

A.

I personally would not use this bird for two reasons.
1. Notice all the brassy color in the body.
2. There is a ton of white in the wings where I think it should be black.


B.

Not sure what to think on this one. It looks pretty good to me but not sure it is spread out enough to really see what you need to see.

C.

Of the four wings here I think this one is probably the best example that I could find.

D.

A different bird with a little different problem?

Thanks for your reactions and comments
Rob