Bumblefoot – is this a good treatment plan?

[kryp]

That was one of the worst things I've done in my life...

I made a small incision and pushed a bunch of soft black gunk out. I was struggling to get it all out so made a second incision in the shape of a + to try to get under the skin better and squeeze out the rest.

I didn't get out anything hard and unfortunately it looked like there was still a decent amount of yellow gunk left but after about 20 mins of prodding around with tweezers and squeezing her foot I decided I did as much as I could and sprayed with Vetericyn and packed some Neosporin into the wound.

She was a champ... She didn't like the cutting, but apart from that she was far more relaxed than me...

I've attached a picture of the bottom of her foot. You can see a very small, almost pin-pick cut near her middle toe, then a larger, slightly scabby cut in the centre-bottom of her pad. The large one was black the other day, but the scab fell off on its own and I think her pad looks okay now apart from being a little swollen...

The other picture I've attached is the round swelling between her toes, where I cut into just a moment ago...

No pics of the aftermath, but I'll try to upload some tomorrow.

In terms of size the swelling is probably a little smaller now after pushing some gunk out.

Any thoughts appreciated.

 

[RubelliteRose]

Glad you were able to get something out!! The bulge on the top of her foot is exactly like the one Torchic had. Hopefully, she will begin healing now that some of the infection is gone and the triple antibiotic can reach the source of the infection. The stringy type of bumblefoot infection is so much harder to deal with than the plug/core type so it may take a while to fully heal.
As far as oral antibiotics, I have not used them, but this is from the thread that I posted earlier.

I've had no luck treating the actual bumblefoot infection with antibiotics, and I've tried several. Enrofloxacin, penicillin, amoxicillin, clindamycin, cephalexin.

He does go on to say that they might help if a secondary infection develops though.

 

[kryp]

Attaching some photos of her foot 24 hours after the incision... Keep to get any thoughts.

As you can see it's scabbed up and is quite red (I assume from all the squeezing yesterday). I think it seems a bit smaller if you compare to yesterday.

Her pad is looking quite good too. It's probably a little too early to tell, but I think the swelling is slowly going down...

Will continue spraying with Vetericyn and applying Neosporin for now.

Annoyingly when I was checking over my other three chickens this afternoon I noticed another has a sore and swelling on the pad of her foot... It looks like it could be early stage bumblefoot so I've bathed and bandaged her up tonight too, but hoping I caught it early enough that she won't require any dramatic treatment.

Oh, and when I was cleaning out their poop today I noticed a tiny wiggly thing in one of their poops (despite me worming just a few months ago). So I assume at least one of them has worms so they're all getting wormed now too...

 

[RubelliteRose]

The swelling does look like it has gone down
Sigh, sometimes it does seem like it is one thing after another with chickens. But they are so adorable and we love them so much it is absolutely worth it!

 

[coach723]

I've had a house full of company all week, so am just seeing this.
Looks like you've done well so far. I'm going to link to a thread on using sugardine for treatment, may be handy if needed. I've had really good results with it for some really bad, really stubborn bumblefoot cases, one being the stringy kind that tunnels through the foot.
See post #8 here:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/bumblefoot-not-healing.1443809/
Sometimes the small shallow ones can take longer than you imagine to heal, so just keep plugging away at it topically for a while. It will either slowly get better, or if it gets bigger instead you can move up to a more involved treatment. The upside, and downside, of bumblefoot is that it's a slow process, both in developing and in healing.
I've had several birds that got the swelling between the toes. I've found for those, lancing on the top, on the lump, cleaning them out, and then packing with sugardine and wrapping, to be the fastest improvement and healing.
For the worm you saw, if you aren't sure what it is it's always helpful for us to see pictures. Usually the only ones seen in droppings are roundworm or tapeworm, with different treatments for both. Sometimes a maggot from an insect egg laid in a dropping after it was passed is mistaken for a worm, but seeing it usually answers that. If you've had roundworm in the past, reinfection is pretty common, the eggs survive a very long time in the environment and the birds continue to pick them up from the soil.

 

[kryp]

I've had a house full of company all week, so am just seeing this.
Looks like you've done well so far. I'm going to link to a thread on using sugardine for treatment, may be handy if needed. I've had really good results with it for some really bad, really stubborn bumblefoot cases, one being the stringy kind that tunnels through the foot.
See post #8 here:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/bumblefoot-not-healing.1443809/
Sometimes the small shallow ones can take longer than you imagine to heal, so just keep plugging away at it topically for a while. It will either slowly get better, or if it gets bigger instead you can move up to a more involved treatment. The upside, and downside, of bumblefoot is that it's a slow process, both in developing and in healing.
I've had several birds that got the swelling between the toes. I've found for those, lancing on the top, on the lump, cleaning them out, and then packing with sugardine and wrapping, to be the fastest improvement and healing.
For the worm you saw, if you aren't sure what it is it's always helpful for us to see pictures. Usually the only ones seen in droppings are roundworm or tapeworm, with different treatments for both. Sometimes a maggot from an insect egg laid in a dropping after it was passed is mistaken for a worm, but seeing it usually answers that. If you've had roundworm in the past, reinfection is pretty common, the eggs survive a very long time in the environment and the birds continue to pick them up from the soil.

Thanks! I have povidone-iodine so I'll give sugardine a go if I have to cut into it again. It does seem like it's slightly more effective than the neosporin.

I'm really hoping I get lucky and both heal up quite soon because it's such a pain having to check their bandages constantly and soak their feet daily..

Also kinda surprising how stubborn these infections can be.. With all the miracles of modern medicine you'd think there would be something out there that might be a bit more effective than what we have...

In regards to the worm, if I see another I'll take a pic, but it looked like it was a few mm long and a little wider than a human hair. I don't know if it was a baby worm or something, but it was absolutely tiny...

I did check the other poop in the garden but didn't see anything (although not sure I would anyway). I'm treating them with Flubendazole which is what I use every 4-6 months or so as a precautionary measure. Although maybe I should start doing it every 3 months given they free range in our garden and are always digging and forging in the flower beds for snacks...

Regardless of the worm though, shouldn't the Flubendazole do the trick?

 

[coach723]

That wormer should be effective, maybe not for all types of tapeworm. I think it has to be given for 7 days in a row?
Possibly you saw a cecal worm, a type of roundworm. Large round worm looks like cooked spaghetti, cecal are smaller. Without seeing, can't say for sure. For tapeworm a medication containing praziquantel is usually recommended as it will cover all types of them. It can be gotten in a horse wormer (Equimax or Zimectrin Gold in the US).

I have to worm every 3-4 months for roundworm in my flock and usually use fenbendazole or albendazole.

 

[kryp]

That wormer should be effective, maybe not for all types of tapeworm. I think it has to be given for 7 days in a row?
Possibly you saw a cecal worm, a type of roundworm. Large round worm looks like cooked spaghetti, cecal are smaller. Without seeing, can't say for sure. For tapeworm a medication containing praziquantel is usually recommended as it will cover all types of them. It can be gotten in a horse wormer (Equimax or Zimectrin Gold in the US).
View attachment 4258642
I have to worm every 3-4 months for roundworm in my flock and usually use fenbendazole or albendazole.

Thanks for that. Looking at that diagram and looking online I'd be quite confident saying that what I saw was a cecal worm.

I believe Flubendazole is basically the only thing we can get for poultry in the UK. Fenbendazole is available here but for other animals like dogs and cats (although could probably still be used if dosed correctly).

But yes, Flubendazole must be given for 7 days in their feed.

 

[coach723]

Yes, you could use those forms of fenbendazole, dose would just be different. If you find yourself needing to worm regularly it can be a good idea to occasionally rotate your medication (if possible) in order to prevent any possible resistance to the meds in the parasites. I just use up one bottle and then buy the other for the next round, it doesn't have to be rotated every time.

 

[kryp]

Would you guys recommend bathing in epsom salts daily or is that unnecessary? Is it enough to just spray with Vetericyn, apply neosporin/ichthammol and bandage? Beyond cleaning up the foot, I'm wondering if the daily baths are really helping that much.

Alice's foot looks a little more swollen today and I can feel what feels like a fairly large hard lump under the scab on her foot. I applied ichthammol to her scab tonight and will see if I can draw the infection towards the surface this week. However I suspect I might need to cut into it again, perhaps a little more aggressively next time to try getting rid of everything that's in there