Bumblefoot – is this a good treatment plan?

[coach723]

Soaking is really up to you, and whether it's helping or not. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. It can be time consuming. If you feel a hard lump, then it's probably regenerating. Soaking can help with pain and swelling, and can soften the scab for removal. Sometimes rather than soak I will apply decolorized iodine (not the same a povidone iodine- usually in the first aid section of your human pharmacy) and wrap the foot overnight and that will soften it up as well. I have found the sugardine to help when it's continuing to regenerate. In that case I clean it out daily and pack with the sugardine, and see a gradual decrease in regeneration, until it finally stops. Some of them can be really, really stubborn, and if even the tiniest amount remains in there, it keeps coming back. For really bad ones I use a small curette like the one pictured below. Like a tiny spoon, but not real sharp edges. Helps remove that stuff that sticks to the healthy tissue. I got mine on amazon.

 

[kryp]

Soaking is really up to you, and whether it's helping or not. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. It can be time consuming. If you feel a hard lump, then it's probably regenerating. Soaking can help with pain and swelling, and can soften the scab for removal. Sometimes rather than soak I will apply decolorized iodine (not the same a povidone iodine- usually in the first aid section of your human pharmacy) and wrap the foot overnight and that will soften it up as well. I have found the sugardine to help when it's continuing to regenerate. In that case I clean it out daily and pack with the sugardine, and see a gradual decrease in regeneration, until it finally stops. Some of them can be really, really stubborn, and if even the tiniest amount remains in there, it keeps coming back. For really bad ones I use a small curette like the one pictured below. Like a tiny spoon, but not real sharp edges. Helps remove that stuff that sticks to the healthy tissue. I got mine on amazon.
View attachment 4259048

That's so weird! I literally just ordered curette from Amazon after writing my last post!

I was watching this video on bumblefoot and thought I'd give a curette a try next time since it seemed to work quite well at digging out some of the infection that's deeper in the tissue,

When going in from the top of her foot, apart from some bleeding is there anything I need to be careful about? It feels so wrong putting stuff inside her foot, and I think last time I may have been overly cautious. The video I shared looked quite rough so maybe I don't need to be as careful as I think?

But thanks again. I think I'll give removing it one last try myself in a few days then might need to consider taking her to the vet.

 

[coach723]

I hadn't seen that video before, it's a good one.
There are tendons and ligaments in the toes that connect bone to muscle. If you pull on one it will make the toes flex or straighten. As long as you are reasonably careful, and are not digging right up against the bones, you should be ok. When coming from the top, between toes like that, it's less likely to be an issue. I always tell people to just take your time, take a break and breathe if needed, shake your arms, relax. You can also give the bird a break if they seem stressed. And try to have everything on hand that you even MIGHT need, less stress than trying to look for something you forgot, in the middle of it (ask me how I know THAT! ).

 

[RubelliteRose]

I don't always soak in epsom salt either. It is helpful if I need to remove a tough scab, but if you are wrapping and using the spray/ointment daily then a daily soak isn't really necessary.
That is a very good video, I hadn't seen it either. I will also need to look into a curette, so thanks both of you for the suggestion.

 

[kryp]

I tried again but failed to remove anything significant, and put her in a lot of pain and discomfort. I feel exhausted, physically sick and extremely disappointed in myself for once again letting her down.

I've attached a photo of her foot after trying again remove whatever is inside. It's hard to tell, but I basically cut right down the entire surface of the lump this time and also opened it out with a few smaller perpendicular cuts.

I squeezed aggressively and again got a small amount of soft black/yellow puss out, but that was basically it. Despite the lump feeling firm and despite me squeezing, cutting deeper, and trying to dig around in there I couldn't get anything meaningful or solid out. The other photo attached is the soft puss I got out and smeared onto a gauze pad.

I know it's probably because I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm really confused at what I'm not understanding here. It would be one thing if I could at least see something, like the stringy yellow stuff people describe, or a solid kernel I couldn't quite remove. But all I see is flesh, and when I poke around she bleeds and I'm clearly putting her in pain. It's nothing like any of the videos I've watched.

I think what I'm trying to ask here, is does anyone know if a hard swelling is even necessarily associated with a hard kernel that needs removing in all cases of bumblefoot? Could her foot just be hard and swollen from the infection that was there previously and be taking a while to go down?

If what I did wasn't enough then I don't know what would be necessary at this point... Do I need to cut an even bigger gash in her foot and dig even deeper with a scalpel?

Anyway, as suggested I put sugardine in and around the wound instead of neosporin this time...

Concerningly she also ate a strand of medical tape while I was trying to wrap her foot so now I'm worrying about that as well.

Sorry, I'm feeling very shaken up right now and I genuinely don't know what to do at this point.

 

[coach723]

Sorry you are feeling discouraged, sometimes this is a stubborn and long term process. I worked on one bird for over a year. Don't blame yourself, it's kind of the nature of this thing sometimes. We all have a first time and I didn't know what I was doing then either. What I would do now is to pack it with sugardine every day and wrap. If you see visible pus, remove it, you can do some gentle manipulation if you want, nothing huge, with each bandage change. If you see pus then some small tweezers (sterile) may be helpful. I would do this for a couple of weeks, let the foot rest, let her rest. After 2 weeks reassess (unless things start to look drastically worse during this time). If you want, you can do a round of amoxicillin to make sure that no other bacteria was introduced during this session. The sugardine has a good chance of slowly reducing the infection if you are persistent. Don't be afraid to really pack it in there. For now I would not dig or cut anymore. If pus regenerates you should be able to see it at the bandage change, and since you will be looking daily, it should be small amounts.
What kind of tape did she swallow, and how much? It's probably not going to be an issue unless it was an enormous amount.

 

[kryp]

Sorry you are feeling discouraged, sometimes this is a stubborn and long term process.

Thanks. I don't mind it taking a long time, I just don't like that I feel so unclear on what I should be doing and feel like I'm just inflicting pain on her for no reason.

My main concern is that there's a kernel in there that needs to come out and I can't get it out. After I cut into her foot last time it looked a bit smaller for a day or two, but over the last few days it has grown again and I didn't want to leave it. I'm almost certain in another week I'm going to be in the same situation again, and I worry that's because I'm not getting it all out.

In regards to removing puss, I can't really do that unless I cut into her foot... Last time her foot was scabbed up within 24 hours so I couldn't extract anything after that. I've been using Ichthammol to try to bring the infection to the surface, but I'm not convinced it's doing much.

What kind of tape did she swallow, and how much? It's probably not going to be an issue unless it was an enormous amount.

It all happened so fast I didn't really see how much, but I assume it must have been quite small for her to swallow it as quickly as she did. I think she'll probably be fine too... I'm just annoyed at myself about not getting anything out and then her eating the tape. I think I did more harm than good.

 

[coach723]

I have felt that way at times too. Give the sugardine some time to work, take a break and let her have a break as well.

 

[RubelliteRose]

If you aren't getting any significant amount of pus out of her foot, then as coach723 says, it is time for a break for both of you. I had to take several breaks with Wanda while treating her bumblefoot. Bumblefoot can be so frustrating! It feels like you need to do something, but taking breaks will allow her immune system to work on the infection and form a kernel that can be removed.

 

[kryp]

Hi guys. I'm back and looking for some advice for what to do next...

I've attached two photos. The first is the bottom of her foot. Where my tweezers are is a cut and what feels like a hard lump underneath. The cut has been there for a couple of weeks now and does not seem to be healing, however the foot looks healthy. My first question is do I need to cut into this? Or should I just continue to bandage and applying neosporin?

The second photo is the top of her foot. It is forming a kind of semi-hard black surface. I've been occationally picking it off and applying sugardine, but as you can see it's very inflamed and she's doesn't really standing on her foot anymore. My second question is should I cut into this again and if so how would you recommend I do it? Do I just cut a slit and try to push whatever is in there to the surface, or do I need to dig a circular hole into her foot and forcibly extract whatever is in there? Or I suppose the alternative is that I just keep applying sugardine and hoping it doesn't continue to worsen.

As I've mentioned before, I really have no idea what I'm doing so it would be great to understand what someone who has successfully treated bumblefoot before would do.

Doing nothing is obviously an answer too, but I'm concerned by the lack of improvement so far.

Thank you <3