Button quails. Gender/morph ID help, and cage input needed.

[Carrion_Luggage]

Hello! I have been reading info on quails from this forum for a while, but have a few questions I can't seem to find answers for, and I wanted some cage/coop input.

In May I hatched 6 quails, had ordered a dozen, 9 hatched, but the last 3 came out a few days after the first 6, and did not make it past the first few days. The 6 that are living have been wonderful. These are my first birds. They come inside at night and are paired up in smaller cages, during the day they all share a larger outdoor cage, but debating building a 2nd one.

I took the white and silver into the vet for blood DNA tests, and both came back as female. However I don't know if that is correct, I don't know how accurate blood tests are. They were not cheap, so not pleased if they are wrong.

4 of the 6.


I am not sure what the morphs are of the two birds in the photo below. I have looked at photos but it could be a few types. I also thought the bird in front was male(red feathers), but its been one of the main aggressors, mostly towards the white, silver, and dark hen(blueface?) The other male it's pictures with is the bird it has bonded with, and looking through older photos these two have always been close. They have recently started making a nest together, and very aggressive when the others come near. I have seen both do the food offering behavior to each other. The other confusing thing is they have mounted each other from time to time, but the one in the back dose it more often. Do females sometimes mount? or do males pair up like this? One thing I have noticed is its only the one in the back that makes the male crow/wind sounds, and will attack the other normal when he crows.


I have never heard the silver or white crow, and they get bullied the most by the pair. The silver will also bully the white one. I have seen the silver try to mount the dark hen.

So my questions here is, how accurate are blood tests? Could the white and silver be male? Do males pair up like this, or could this other bird be female? It is aggressive towards everyone but the darker birds. Also don't know of the 2nd bird is a normal, or is it a red breasted, or a cinnamon? It dose have more yellow on it's back.


The normal male also gets along great with the white one, at night they are kept together in a cage, the silver and dark hen in one, and then the pair above.

Coop/Cage Input.

As I have pointed out above, I keep them all in an outdoor cage during the day, it is a small chicken coop I found online, that I have been modding to be more secure. It is 2x4x2 feet, with the upper area being 2x2 feet. Half the birds use the upper level, and it's more to escape from the pair when they are raging. At night when they were kept together there was feather plunking happening, as the white was missing a lot of head feathers, and everyone but the one pair had their tails pulled out. Since splinting up at night, everyone has grown back the lost feathers.



Trying to figure out what is the best way to make this more secure and what to add for enrichment. Did wrap the bottom in wire, to prevent something from digging in, or out. While writing this all out I ran outside to take these photos, and noticed the birds in the trees above making a racket, looking up to see this guy glaring down at me.

Needless to say I gathered everyone up and took them inside for the day. Now I am paranoid as to it being worth the effort to secure the pen for outdoor use, or if I should build something for them to stay inside. Is there a way to guarantee protection for them? As I was planning to move them outside for both day and night, rather then cycling them around. Worried it might be causing them too much stress. They seem to love being outside, as there isn't much fighting, just chasing away from the nest spot. They love rolling around in the dirt outside. I have an indoor dust bath pan that only 2 use, while everyone rolls around outside.

I just don't know if I should keep them outside. Going to look into having the opossum trapped and relocated, but no idea if it's the only one. What would be best? How can I make this better? Non of them use the hide boxes I built, how can I encourage those being used?

Thank you in advance for taking the time to read through my post, and I am all ears to ways to improve their lives. These are pets, and I want them to be as happy as possible.

 

[DK newbie]

Wow, that's a lot of issues..
First things first, the sex of the birds.

DNA sexing is very exact if done correctly. Looking at all the pink feathers on the silver bird, I can't reach any other conclusion than that it wasn't done correctly - the bird is either male or a completely new, never heard of pink-bellied female mutation. Or a chimera of cause, that has genes from two individuals, one of those being female. But the chance of that is ridiculously low.
You mention you've seen it mount another bird and as I've never seen a female do that, that increases the likelihood of it being a red breasted silver male (it has even more red feathers than a normal male).
Don't know if you can complain to the vet and have them redo the sexing for free?
Actually it's possible to have feather-DNA sexing done rather inexpensively. You just pluck some feathers from the bird and send them to a lab that offers this service, then they'll tell you if the bird is male or female. I think it's around 15 dollars to get this done, where I live. It's probably mostly used for parrots.

The white bird can't be sexed visually, but as you don't mention seeing it do anything only males would (wind sounds - what an amazing name for it by the way, I've never known what to call it but 'wind sounds' just seem right - mounting other birds, tidbitting the others) I say it's probably female.
Females can be aggressive towards both males and females and the same goes for males, so who's attacking who doesn't tell anything about sex.

Your 'pair' does seem, in every way, to be 2 males. It's not unheard of for two males to form a pair bond, though I haven't heard of it happening when females were available - only when the males were kept alone together. But either it happened here or these two are just both so aggressive they are scared to attack each other and also the only ones that can stand each others' company ^^
The one in the foreground of the pair-picture looks like a cinnamon - possibly cinnamon red breasted.

The one you want to know whether is cinnamon, red breasted or normal puts me at a loss as well. I't not cinnamon like the other and I don't think there's enough red feathers for it to be a red breasted, but there is something affecting the color of the wing feathers at least.

So, in conclusion I believe you have two females - white and blueface. The rest are males.

What I would do with regards to cages:

I'd keep them split up the way you do at night - several males in an enclosure that has females is a recipe for problems. Whether to do this inside or outside depends on your situation. I prefer at least 6-8 square feet for a pair of buttons - if you have room for 3 cages of that size inside (perhaps on top of each other), they can live happily like that and you won't need to worry about predator protection.

If you don't have room for large indoor cages, I'd do anything in my power to predator-proof 3 outdoor cages for them.

There are many ways to do this, but first of all you need a solid bottom for the cages. Either wire or you can place the cages on concrete slabs or plain concrete - just make sure there is no way an animal smaller than a bear (if you have bears, that a different story of cause - then you'd need to build a fortress for them) can tip the cages or push them off the slabs.
Then you need a small wire size - ½ inch x ½ inch should prevent most animals from bothering the quail. Even mice can have trouble with that size and raccoons and such shouldn't be able to grab the birds through the wire.
You could do two layers of wire for extra security. Make sure there is no way an animal could put it's claws into the wire and pull it loose from the frame.

One more thing to think carefully about is how to close the cages. There have been many stories on here about raccoons being able to open cages. A padlock is fine, but anything less that that and you really need to make sure it's 100% raccoon proof.

With regards to nest boxes - just give up. I've had mine use tunnels of various materials, but a dark cave with only one entrance just doesn't attract them at all. What they DO like, is plants they can hide behind. I place spruce branches in the corners of my cages and this is usually where they make their nests. The most nest-box like thing I've ever had them use is a box (mine was about 50x40x30 cm but you could probably go smaller than that as well) with a fully open front, hay or sand inside and spruce branches placed in front of it. They like that.

 

[JaeG]

Buttons are happiest in pairs (same sex is fine, or one of each) or trio's (1 male, 2 females) but they must have enough space. Males will fight over females, females will fight over territory. I'm pretty new to them too. We have a trio in our aviary and a trio that live indoors. They are very sweet little things as long as they are settled and happy. We have one female on eggs at the moment in the aviary despite the fact its the middle of winter here (though it's been a very wet one so far so not overly cold). Hopefully something will hatch for her.

 

[Carrion_Luggage]

@DK newbie
Thank you for taking the time to read my long winded post, and giving me your input. It was my fear that the DNA test was incorrect. It took a few weeks before I could get in to see the local exotic vet, since is was non emergency visit. The feathers weren't pink when I first set things up, and as time went on, behaviors made me think it was male. Getting the results as female, just led to confusion.

As for the m/m aggressors, the last few days I have stopped letting them be around the others, as they are happy together. Removing one bird from the enclosure causes the other to panic, and they start marco poloing. They are also the most friendly birds, tolerate being handled, and enjoy chin/neck rubs in small dosages. They sleep together, tidbitting the other, mutual groom, its rather cute and they are both handsome birds.

The last few days I have been busying taking measurements around my house, looking online at different sorts of rabbit hutches, and fiddling around in Sketchup trying to find an indoor solution. Outside raises a whole bunch of concerned I overlooked when I first started looking into birds. Weather, predators, the overall fear of escape. Sadly I can't do 6x8 feet indoors, but stacking was an option I did not consider. I think I would rather have them in side, even if it means they can't have quite as large cage. As I would like to enjoy their company and they are more calm when I am at their level. Tired to hang outside with them while reading, and mosquitoes are horrible right now. They also didn't like me sitting towering above their ground cage, while laying down they will come check me out.

The nesting boxes were something I put together with scarp wood I had laying around, so no lost. Had noticed the fake plants and hay are more appealing. I do like the idea of a larger box with plants covering the entrance and am trying to figure out how to work that into the Sketchup model. Have a lot of wood laying around, and just need to pick up smaller 1x2s this weekend. Hopefully I can make the time to start putting together a few larger indoor cages, rather then cycling them around during the day/night. Have a permanent location for them would be wonderful.

Thank you again for your input and advice, this has been very insightful. I will share some photos of what I end up making for them, and hopefully it is something they enjoy.

 

[DK newbie]

Just to be sure we are understanding each other correctly, I didn't suggest 6x8 feet indoors. I suggested 6-8 square feet. So 3x2 ft for instance, would be okay.
I have indoor buttons in 4x2 cages and they are happy enough like that to hatch and raise their own chicks over and over again. If you don't want chicks, you can just remove the eggs of cause. But a pair raising their own babies is SO cute ^^

Your male pair sounds very cute as well.

To inspire your project, I'll just share the drawings for one of my 2x4 cages. In the finished cage, the inside is painted white. The front is covered with wire. A couple of inches below the top I've suspended a layer of tulle to prevent boinking injuries and above that I have a light chain that turns on automatically every morning and off every evening, so I don't have to worry about the cage being too dark.
The cage is build to house both quail and finches - If you have no desire for finches, I'd make the doors as high as the cage and a little wider than mine to improve access to the cage - the finches just escape every time I open to feed them, if they have such large doors.