BUYER BEWARE: Blue Star Chicken Ranch in Austin TX

[Myrshine]

The Marek’s vaccine is there for those who have a MD positive flock. Chickens shouldn’t be vaccinated unless you have a positive for said disease in your flock or area. Most vaccines make birds carriers of whatever you vaccinated them for. Poultry aren’t like dogs, cats or humans, they don’t need yearly vaccines or any at all. I’ve read that MD is only so deadly because of vaccines. If people didn’t vaccinate all Willy nilly, then we wouldn’t have so many cases of MD or other diseases. Just my 2 cents from my research.

 

[TheAlrightyGina]

The Marek’s vaccine is there for those who have a MD positive flock. Chickens shouldn’t be vaccinated unless you have a positive for said disease in your flock or area. Most vaccines make birds carriers of whatever you vaccinated them for. Poultry aren’t like dogs, cats or humans, they don’t need yearly vaccines or any at all. I’ve read that MD is only so deadly because of vaccines. If people didn’t vaccinate all Willy nilly, then we wouldn’t have so many cases of MD or other diseases. Just my 2 cents from my research.

Marek's vaccine doesn't make your bird a carrier. They can become one if they get Marek's disease (instead of dying), but they aren't automatically a carrier.

To me, if it's a bird you plan on keeping for their entire life, you should get them vaccinated, because if you don't and Marek's ends up in your flock, it is extremely likely that they are going to suffer and die. If they are a meat bird or you don't intend to keep them (say birds you plan to sell), then there's really no reason to vaccinate them, unless in the latter case, your market research tells you that people prefer vaccinated birds.

Vaccines rarely cause resistance, because they are prophylactic. Drugs such as antibiotics and antivirals are far more likely to be culprits because they are therapeutic, acting on diseases in a specific way instead of promoting an immune system response. What research has led you to believe that the Marek's vaccine has led to an increase in virulence for Marek's disease?

 

[NatJ]

What research has led you to believe that the Marek's vaccine has led to an increase in virulence for Marek's disease?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4516275/
Here's a study.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...s-enhance-spread-of-deadlier-chicken-viruses/
Here's a National Geographic article.

And here's a wikipedia page that discusses it in some detail, and cites both of those, in the "prevention" section of the article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marek's_disease

The really short version is:
With no vaccine, very virulent strains kill all birds, quit spreading, and die out.
But vaccinated birds can get the virulent strains, live with it, and keep spreading it.
So the virulent strains survive, instead of dying out.

 

[Winter Creek Coop]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4516275/
Here's a study.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...s-enhance-spread-of-deadlier-chicken-viruses/
Here's a National Geographic article.

And here's a wikipedia page that discusses it in some detail, and cites both of those, in the "prevention" section of the article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marek's_disease

The really short version is:
With no vaccine, very virulent strains kill all birds, quit spreading, and die out.
But vaccinated birds can get the virulent strains, live with it, and keep spreading it.
So the virulent strains survive, instead of dying out.

Makes sense.

 

[TheAlrightyGina]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4516275/
Here's a study.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...s-enhance-spread-of-deadlier-chicken-viruses/
Here's a National Geographic article.

And here's a wikipedia page that discusses it in some detail, and cites both of those, in the "prevention" section of the article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marek's_disease

The really short version is:
With no vaccine, very virulent strains kill all birds, quit spreading, and die out.
But vaccinated birds can get the virulent strains, live with it, and keep spreading it.
So the virulent strains survive, instead of dying out.

The only source that actually claims that is the case is Wikipedia (which can be edited by anyone). All other sources say that it may be the case, as there is no proof that the Marek's vaccine led to the more virulent strain(s).

It's an interesting argument though. They need to do a lot of replication studies, especially considering the one study that seemed to show that vaccinated chickens became so called 'super spreaders' of the most virulent strains if they became infected with them, just as non vaccinated chickens do with the milder forms.

As one of the people they interviewed pointed out, there's actually no evidence that leaky vaccines like Marek's lead to more virulent strains--it just makes sense to some because it changes the evolutionary pressures. One of the polio vaccines is brought up, which apparently is leaky, but hasn't led to more virulent polio in 50+ years of use.

Even the authors admit that this doesn't mean that we shouldn't use Marek's vaccine; instead their goal is for those that are researching and developing vaccines to consider the potential repurcussions of pursuing imperfect (leaky) ones.

I for one prefer to keep my chickens healthy and alive; since Marek's is ubiquitous in the US, I think it makes sense to vaccinate. But if nothing else, it's a good idea to keep an unvaccinated bird or two (which I do, I don't vaccinate my meat birds) so that if it does arrive on my property, I can do what I can to prevent its spread.

 

[Tankueray]

The really short version is:
With no vaccine, very virulent strains kill all birds, quit spreading, and die out.
But vaccinated birds can get the virulent strains, live with it, and keep spreading it.
So the virulent strains survive, instead of dying out.

Well, there's a worldwide human trial of something very similar going on right now, so we'll find out if this theory has merit soon enough. (Sorry, biologist sarcasm.) I'm not familiar with the rate of mutation in Marek's, but generally avian or food animal hosts are the best kind for rapid spread and mutation. That and humans, because we move around so much, and our genetic diversity allows for carriers with few or no symptoms (sound familiar?).

Actually, it's called the imperfect vaccine hypothesis, and there is quite a bit of concurrence that it is occuring with Marek's:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28038868/
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/tthis-chicken-vaccine-makes-virus-dangerous

So yes, anyone that has personal experience with this hatchery AND evidence such as Vet records or TAMU VMDL results (as I believe the OP said they had) should report this to their own and Travis County's Ag Extension Agent. Unfortunately, Marek's is considered an endemic disease (very common) and commercial flocks are vaccinated against it, so it poses no major economic threat to the industry. Ergo, there's no law against selling infected birds; and it appears that this facility slips through a tiny loophole that prevents them from required registration and monitoring by the State. (Now before anyone gets upset about that, it's the same loophole that allows everyone in Texas to breed and sell from their homes too, so don't go calling The Chronicle.... There are some interesting indicators of knowledge of how exactly to sidestep the law on that website though.) At least the Extension Agents' knowledge of the situation may allow them to protect other private flock owners in their areas through education and outreach.

However, you can always go with the Al Capone approach, call the Comptroller and the IRS. That bartering system has to be reported as income, and sales tax should be collected and remitted on taxable items no matter what type of payment is accepted. (Ahem, screenshot all that first though, I assume this post will be discovered at some point and the evidence removed.)

And thanks for this, I found that facility yesterday, and after working through the headache that the website caused, actually thought about buying from there. This free forum membership is already paying for itself!

 

[Tankueray]

I for one prefer to keep my chickens healthy and alive; since Marek's is ubiquitous in the US, I think it makes sense to vaccinate. But if nothing else, it's a good idea to keep an unvaccinated bird or two (which I do, I don't vaccinate my meat birds) so that if it does arrive on my property, I can do what I can to prevent its spread.

As macabre as that seems, that's sound science and good husbandry.

 

[jscf]

TL;DR: DON'T DO IT. Two recent necropsies show we have Mareks disease and respiratory illness in our flock, and investigation/tracing proves it came from Blue Star. If you are in the Central Texas/Austin area, get your chicks from Tractor Supply, Callahan's, or if you really want to buy from a hatchery/breeder, check out Seabreeze Hens in San Leon (which has great *real* reviews for a reason) or Ideal Hatchery in Waco. Blue Star knowingly sells sick birds to people who don't know any better, as stated by SO many reviewers across multiple platforms.

It's hard to think that we, as complete noobs, didn't pay attention to the red flags that in hindsite are so obvious. Plenty of others have left reviews that clearly state the same major issues we ended up having--but we also saw the 5-star reviews and chose to give Blue Star the benefit of the doubt. The grounds at Blue Star leave much to be desired (which we now can see), and Mary's way of conducting business, while it has a certain charm, was/is questionable.

In August 2019 we bought pullets from Mary Ann Fordyce at Blue Star--at a premium price, of course. Of the five pullets (6-8 weeks old), one looked ill almost immediately, but because we were so ignorant we didn't know better; we called her our "emo bird" because she was "chill" and "aloof" and just liked to sleep. (HINT: this is *NOT* normal chicken behavior!) At the time we introduced these birds, we had only three healthy laying hens who had come from a friend's very healthy flock (her flock is still thriving). Within THREE WEEKS, one of our healthy layers died a terrible, traumatic death complete with swollen sinuses/eyes, pussy nostrils, and wheezing; two weeks later "emo bird" was dead too.

We went back to Blue Star in March 2020 for another batch, because a) we'd bought and lost so many birds at this point we were down to three; b) we were enticed by the "special breeds" we wanted and Mary had; c) we believe in giving second chances; and mostly d) we were impatient for older pullets and all Tractor Supply/Callahans had were chicks. Dumb dumb dumb. My partner told Mary of the issues we'd had and she was terribly apologetic; she gave him four "free" birds as a makeup gift--but the price paid for the six might as well have been for all ten. OH, I nearly forgot to mention that when he called before going out there she said "either bring canned goods or the price of each bird will go up" because this was at the beginning of the pandemic. We didn't have cans and again, paid premium price. (We are dumb.) Two of the babes were sneezing the day after we brought them home, so we quarantined them from the 8 others immediately and somehow they pulled through. Now it's August and they're both dead, along with five others from that batch. Two of the remaining three now show the same symptoms and we're expecting to lose them, too, although of course hoping we won't.

We had our last two dead birds necropsied (you can do this through Texas A&M DVML clinics for a small fee), which show they died of Mareks disease, an incurable, untreatable virus that can live in the environment for years. The only way to combat Mareks disease is to vaccinate day-old chicks, or purchase vaccinated chicks, and even then it only helps to increase the odds they'll be able to fend off the deadly symptoms.

Of 15 total birds we've gotten from Mary/Blue Star, five are still alive. And two of those are unlikely to make it.

It's really, really hard to believe Mary would not know she has illness in her flocks. At worst, she DOES know and sells them anyway. At best, she is selling very weak birds. On her website there is now a multi-paragraph "disclaimer" attempting to explain the bad reviews "trolls" have left on social media. The fact that she feels the need to go on the offensive re: the bad reviews sadly points to the former as the more likely reason.

Don't be dumb like us and regret it later. Heed the poor reviews and BUY YOUR BIRDS ELSEWHERE.

I wish I would have read reviews before going there. I had a terrible experience, exactly the same as yours. We recieved necropsy results that 3 birds we got from her died of MG, what we were guessing after reading her one star reviews too late.

It is so unethical what she is doing. Breeding super ill birds over and over; keeping them alive with "organic oils" (yea right, probably antibiotics) and then making the buyers feel like they killed the chickens by not giving them enough sunlight, and letting them walk on pine shavings. Poor animals. It is truly animal abuse what she is doing and very unethical farm practices, she has zero respect for bio security or testing poutlry for the greater good, or the National Poultry Improvement Plan. I'm very dissapointed in this business.

 

[ChickeneggFinder]

To people reading reviews about Blue Star ranch:

EACH CUSTOMER HAS A DIFFERENT COOP AND SET UP

Take a look at the "illness, diseases and emergency pages" on the Backyard Chickens group chat. Do some research on chat groups for chicken owners and what do you see? There seem to be many millions of sick chickens out there! Many states, many illness-related issues, and what’s even more important? There are very confused owners too.

WILL THERE BE PROBLEMS RAISING CHICKENSIF I BUY POULTRY FROM BLUE STAR RANCH?

FACTS: No matter where you buy chickens, or from who you purchase chickens: There is a learning curve to raising poultry. (see illness and disease page!)

So do your own research and learn that in some of the chatrooms for chicken groups there are chicken owners all over the country who are begging for advice and need help.

Most new chicken owners want INSTANT ANSWERS. Nearly all “newbies” blame the seller of the chickens no matter where they were purchased.

FACT: I have learned that raising chickens is a "cycle" of replacements as your coop needs change, or your chickens begin to "age," or losses due to illness or predators chickens will need to be replenished and replaced over time.



PEOPLE AND SOCIETY CHANGED - BUT CHICKENS ARE STILL THE SAME- AGRICULTURAL BIRDS

Understand that chickens are in fact farm agricultural animals that as of a generation ago, chickens were considered disposable by your parents and grandparents.

People & society have changed, chickens, for the most part, are still the same birds. https://bluestarchicken.com/reviews



What is the #1 overlooked reason that so many chickens get diagnosed as sick (from any seller!) Its gnats and flies cause many problems. Check it out:

https://www.bluestar-ranch.com/911-chicken-health.html



Thanks! Mary Ann Fordyce aka “The Chicken Lady”

Blue Star Ranch the chicken “eggsperts”

 

[Kiki]

To people reading reviews about Blue Star ranch:

EACH CUSTOMER HAS A DIFFERENT COOP AND SET UP

Take a look at the "illness, diseases and emergency pages" on the Backyard Chickens group chat. Do some research on chat groups for chicken owners and what do you see? There seem to be many millions of sick chickens out there! Many states, many illness-related issues, and what’s even more important? There are very confused owners too.

WILL THERE BE PROBLEMS RAISING CHICKENSIF I BUY POULTRY FROM BLUE STAR RANCH?

FACTS: No matter where you buy chickens, or from who you purchase chickens: There is a learning curve to raising poultry. (see illness and disease page!)

So do your own research and learn that in some of the chatrooms for chicken groups there are chicken owners all over the country who are begging for advice and need help.

Most new chicken owners want INSTANT ANSWERS. Nearly all “newbies” blame the seller of the chickens no matter where they were purchased.

FACT: I have learned that raising chickens is a "cycle" of replacements as your coop needs change, or your chickens begin to "age," or losses due to illness or predators chickens will need to be replenished and replaced over time.



PEOPLE AND SOCIETY CHANGED - BUT CHICKENS ARE STILL THE SAME- AGRICULTURAL BIRDS

Understand that chickens are in fact farm agricultural animals that as of a generation ago, chickens were considered disposable by your parents and grandparents.

People & society have changed, chickens, for the most part, are still the same birds. https://bluestarchicken.com/reviews



What is the #1 overlooked reason that so many chickens get diagnosed as sick (from any seller!) Its gnats and flies cause many problems. Check it out:

https://www.bluestar-ranch.com/911-chicken-health.html



Thanks! Mary Ann Fordyce aka “The Chicken Lady”

Blue Star Ranch the chicken “eggsperts”

To people reading reviews about Blue Star ranch:

EACH CUSTOMER HAS A DIFFERENT COOP AND SET UP

Take a look at the "illness, diseases and emergency pages" on the Backyard Chickens group chat. Do some research on chat groups for chicken owners and what do you see? There seem to be many millions of sick chickens out there! Many states, many illness-related issues, and what’s even more important? There are very confused owners too.

WILL THERE BE PROBLEMS RAISING CHICKENSIF I BUY POULTRY FROM BLUE STAR RANCH?

FACTS: No matter where you buy chickens, or from who you purchase chickens: There is a learning curve to raising poultry. (see illness and disease page!)

So do your own research and learn that in some of the chatrooms for chicken groups there are chicken owners all over the country who are begging for advice and need help.

Most new chicken owners want INSTANT ANSWERS. Nearly all “newbies” blame the seller of the chickens no matter where they were purchased.

FACT: I have learned that raising chickens is a "cycle" of replacements as your coop needs change, or your chickens begin to "age," or losses due to illness or predators chickens will need to be replenished and replaced over time.



PEOPLE AND SOCIETY CHANGED - BUT CHICKENS ARE STILL THE SAME- AGRICULTURAL BIRDS

Understand that chickens are in fact farm agricultural animals that as of a generation ago, chickens were considered disposable by your parents and grandparents.

People & society have changed, chickens, for the most part, are still the same birds. https://bluestarchicken.com/reviews



What is the #1 overlooked reason that so many chickens get diagnosed as sick (from any seller!) Its gnats and flies cause many problems. Check it out:

https://www.bluestar-ranch.com/911-chicken-health.html



Thanks! Mary Ann Fordyce aka “The Chicken Lady”

Blue Star Ranch the chicken “eggsperts”

Are you Blue Star Ranch or are you just copying and pasting from their website?