Buyer's Remorse - are my new Anconas actually a cross? Experts weigh in please!

My new Black and White Ancona has that blue-green sheen too. However, today I noticed that his tail has some white, some black and it looks like one or two brown feathers. I feel so frustrated trying to learn what I brought home a couple of weeks ago. The other one has the penciled (or laced) brown and black feathers. I suspect that neither of these birds will turn out to be to standard, but they are delightful creatures and they are adapting to a much better living condition than they had before. So now I launch into learning everything I can about the breed hoping that next spring I can start with a few top quality birds.
 
That green sheen is desireable in all quality black domestic ducks, or portions which are black, as in these broken pattern birds.
I hate to break it to you, but all Ancona ducks are mutts, or at least are a relatively recent creation as a breed. The originator claimed for years that they were an old British breed, but there is not one shred of documentation which proves that they existed any time before they were first promoted in the US in the 1980s. Interestingly, the originator also bred Magpies, which throw a very high percentage of mismarked offspring which have little value. All of a sudden, so breed historians surmise, the originator now had a ready outlet to sell his mismarked Magpies, by claiming that they are another breed altogether. After observing a large number of Anconas, you will notice that the colored feathers do tend to be concentrated on the body in the same areas which they are on the Magpies, with obviously a lot more intrusion of white than would be allowable in a Magpie. There are a few working standards out there, but as they are not recognized by the American Poultry Association, no one can say that they are standard type.
They are a nice breed in their own right, now, but a little honesty on what they are and where they originated would be nice. The name chosen is kind of foolish. They do not resemble the correct pattern of the Ancona chicken, nor do they originate from the same town in Italy. Several other names for the breed are more appropriate, such as broken, pied or paint. Even Holstein would be more appropriate. At least they are variable in pattern, with no two the same, like the cattle of that breed.
 
That's a pretty serious accusation to make against a man with a sterling reputation, who not only runs a world-class breeding facility but also literally wrote the books on domestic waterfowl.
 
I compare the ancona breed to the australian shepherd. They are a breed created from a mixture of other breeds and there is wide variety amongst the breed.

Similar to the aussie, the exact origins were not well documented, although there is a bit more info on the aussie than the ancona. Either way, I personally love both my aussie boys and ancona trio because they are not cookie cutter looking breeds.
 
That's a pretty serious accusation to make against a man with a sterling reputation, who not only runs a world-class breeding facility but also literally wrote the books on domestic waterfowl.
Then prove me wrong. Find one single reference to the Ancona duck prior to 1980's Oregon, a reference that doesn't come from the breed originator, which includes the ALBC story, which they swallowed at face value without any documentation, simply because they wanted to believe it, IMO. Find any waterfowl or poultry expert in Great Britain who has heard of them existing in their country prior to 1980. Find some importation documents listing the Ancona coming from Great Britain to the US, at any time. Find one single book, catalog, show report or any other material which mentions them prior to 1980.

I like the Australian Shepherd analogy. Both are newly created breeds. Only difference is that the Aussie breeders are up front and realistic about where and when their breed originated, despite keeping the misleading name. Of course the so-called Anconas are not as nearly developed and perfected as to breed type as the Aussies, and have not been recognized by any organization anywhere in the world.

Just to be clear, I like the so-called Anconas. It's about time that we have a pied/broken breed of poultry. I would like to see them recognized, under a more appropriate name. I just don't like stories that can't be documented, that people swallow without question, when all of the evidence points in a different direction.
 
It doesn't matter where they came from. If they originated from mis-marked Magpies, so what? They are a breed now, and a very attractive breed with lots of fanciers.

If the Ancona breeders want them to be accepted into the APA, they will get organized and get them accepted. There are certainly enough birds and enough breeders to qualify. It's not like there has never been a manufactured breed get established and accepted into a registry. It happens in dogs, horses, cattle, pigs, chickens, waterfowl, and for all I know, in sheep.

As long as breeders pay attention, the Ancona breeds true. That makes it a breed.
 
I've been corresponding back and forth with a lady about buying four young female Anconas. I met her today and brought home the birds. They looked fine to me but it was dark and rainy and, to be honest, I was a bit distracted.
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Now that I've gotten a good look at them, I'm worried they are actually a mix of Ancona and something else. They have some bright green feathers on their wings.

To me, it's not the green sheen you get on black feathers (like on my Australorp chicken). But I am new to raising ducks so I am hopefully wrong!




What do you think?

They look like Anconas to me. I recommend you buy The Ancona breed pamphlet written by Dave Holderread. I think it's the closest thing to a written standard that you will find.

Then prove me wrong. Find one single reference to the Ancona duck prior to 1980's Oregon, a reference that doesn't come from the breed originator, which includes the ALBC story, which they swallowed at face value without any documentation, simply because they wanted to believe it, IMO. Find any waterfowl or poultry expert in Great Britain who has heard of them existing in their country prior to 1980. Find some importation documents listing the Ancona coming from Great Britain to the US, at any time. Find one single book, catalog, show report or any other material which mentions them prior to 1980.

Just to be clear, I like the so-called Anconas. It's about time that we have a pied/broken breed of poultry. I would like to see them recognized, under a more appropriate name. I just don't like stories that can't be documented, that people swallow without question, when all of the evidence points in a different direction.

Wow, you're making a lot of accusations there. I'm not going to go there, except to say that the man you are referring to seems to have a sterling reputation in the waterfowl community. I've never heard anything like what you're claiming.

Just curious why you seem to have a problem with the name "Ancona."
 
It doesn't matter where they came from. If they originated from mis-marked Magpies, so what? They are a breed now, and a very attractive breed with lots of fanciers.

If the Ancona breeders want them to be accepted into the APA, they will get organized and get them accepted. There are certainly enough birds and enough breeders to qualify. It's not like there has never been a manufactured breed get established and accepted into a registry. It happens in dogs, horses, cattle, pigs, chickens, waterfowl, and for all I know, in sheep.

As long as breeders pay attention, the Ancona breeds true. That makes it a breed.
Agreed. I just don't like seeing a lot of gullible people swallowing a romantic story, when the reality is they are a recent creation, invented as a marketing technique to be able to sell for good money, day old mismarked Magpies that otherwise had almost no value. I don't like seeing breed histories changed into something that they're not. In other words, I just like the truth, even if it's not that exciting.

Again, if anyone has one single reference to show that the Ancona duck existed prior to 1980's Oregon, I'd love to see it. You don't have to believe my claim, but where is a shred of evidence that the other one is true?
 
Couldn't tell ya. Although I find to my dismay that the early 1980s is already fading into the sepia mists of long-ago. As for the name - where's the hatchery in Russia that all those nice Muscovy ducks come from, and when did turkeys emigrate from Turkey? People are silly about names, always have been, and always will be. God Almighty, have you seen birth announcements lately? For all we know it's some mangled Cornish dialect word or something. If that were so, would you still be all angsty about it?

Have you asked Holderread to cite sources? That could wrap up a whole lot of internet forum accusation and speculation right there.

They're lovely ducks, though. Laid back, nice setters, good to eat and prettier than any other by leaps and bounds.
 

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