BYC Breed Pages Facelift - Help Needed - Discussion

[Bluesilver]

Many breeds have multiple colors and I've seen lots of questions about what particular colors look like. I think it would be nice if as many of the different colors could be pictured. Maybe with small picture that you can click on to see them larger.

 

[cybercat]

Hmm after reading the post here I have some idea about how to list the SOP without copying it exact. Why not in the breed discription give the idea of what it is with a pic to show it. Like Example Partrige Wyandotte Rose comb not single and show a head shot off both. Make a note if birds are show or not. Same time you can describe the head color and feather of good breeding and show a pic of what a none show good bird would look like say hatchery stock.

I know that BYC is working on egg pages by breed also. Those can be linked to the breed pages. If your lucky with weights of ind eggs so people can compare theirs.

Feathersite is a good site the bad of it is that it is mostly out of country not USA birds. Which does not do us much good as their SOPs are different in what they allow. Some breeds colors are way off from what we are allowed here. I know that what you are all planning here will be great help in boosting breed interest here in USA.

 

[Nifty-Chicken]

Hey everyone, I'm revisiting and redoubling my efforts for this project.

I'd like to find a way to take the existing breed pages, the progressive chick ID project , and new pages yet to be created submitted and combine them all into the worlds best database of chicken pictures in the WORLD!!!

I need helpers and volunteers! I'm no breed master, but I can help with the technology and incentives to get peeps to create pages.

I'd like to do this in a way that leverages the system we use for coop pages. Basically imagine one of the chicken coop lists but instead of coops (thumbnails and coop name) we'd have a thumbnail picture of the breed and the name of that breed.

Clicking on the breed name/thumbnail image would take you to that breed page.

One question: What if different people want to create individual pages for the same breed? I think if there are 1,2, or 5 pages for a few popular breeds, that's okay... they can all be customized based on the user creating the page and their experience? Maybe they can be combined into one page later?

I think a template will be important to have the pages all look as similar as possible. I'll need you guys to help come up with a template / order of information and pictures!

So, keep posting ideas and suggestions and post in this thread if you are interested in helping and what you want to do to help!!!

COME HELP US MAKE SOMETHING THAT WILL IMPACT THOUSANDS OF LIVES FOR YEARS AND YEARS TO COME!

 

[Poulets De Cajun]

Here is my thought... Because there are so many breeds it would be hard to do a contest encompassing everything at one time. So my suggestion is to have a monthly contest for each classification. It would take 10 months for completion, but a project of this magnitude couldn't be expected to be finished in a few weeks. We can start with Standard breds, and then move to Bantams. Each month would be designated as a "classification" and members would submit breed pages for the breeds in that classification. The pages would be judged by administrators and staff on information provided, grammar, spelling, picture quality, and general layout. The top 5 to 10 pages could then be linked to a picture page where visitors would click on a picture of the breed they choose, and then be taken to another page where the member pages have been put together. The member pages could be "stacked" or lined up so that as you scroll down the screen you can view one page after another.

As for copywrite stuff, that should be avoided since the written information would be members words and own experiences. And since it would be their own experiences and opinions, it would really personalize the information and provide real world experience, as opposed to the all too common scientific word.

Below are all of the classifications (I think they are all there):

Standard Breds

American Class
Buckeye, Delware, Dominique, Chantecler, Hollands, Java, Jersey Giant, Plymouth Rock, Lamonas,
New Hampshire, Rhode Island, and Wyandotte,

Asiatic Class
Brahma, Cochin, and Langshan

English Class
Australorp, Cornish, Dorking, Orpington, Red Cap, and Sussex

Mediterranean Class
Ancona, Andalusian, Catalana, Leghorn, Minorca, Sicilian Buttercup, and Spanish

Continental
Barnevelder, Campine, Crevecoeur, Faverolles, Hamburg, Houdan, La Fleche, Lakenvelder,
Welsummer, and Polish (Bearded & Non-Bearded),

Bantams

Game
Modern & Old English

Single Comb/Clean Legged (Other Than Game)Ancona, Andalusian, Australorp, Catalana, Campine, Delaware, Dorking, Dutch, Frizzle, Holland,
Japanese, Java, Jersey Giant, Lakenvelder, Lamona, Leghorn, Minorca, Orpington, Naked Neck,
New Hampshire, Phoenix, Plymouth Rock, Rhode Island, Spanish, and Sussex

Rose Comb/Clean Legged
Ancona, Belgian, Dorking, Dominique, Hamburg, Leghorn, Minorca, Red Cap, Rhode Island,
Rosecomb, Sebright, and Wyandotte

All Other Combs/Clean Legged
Ameraucana, Araucana, Buckeye, Chantecler, Cornish, Crevecoeurs, Cubalaya, Houdan, La Fleche,
Malay, Polish, Shamos, Sicilian Buttercup, Sumatra, and Yokohama

Feather Legged
Booted, Brahma, Cochin, Faverolle, Frizzle, Langshan, Silkie, and Sultan

 

[Poulets De Cajun]

I guess I failed to address the template question...

While its important to provide some sort of uniformity, the idea is to get some real world experience instead of the boring scietific descriptions.

I would think that we could set limits for required information, but allow the authors to come up with their own details.

For example, the submissions would need to provide the basics such as breed characteristics, history and origin, temperment, variety description, and "type". However these do not have to be in this particular order, and do not have to be in a particular layout. Members could design their page any way they see fit.

For example, one entry could have all of this information in "newspaper format." If I were creating a Silkie page, I would have a large title stating "Silkie News", and the information would be set up in a column format, much like the front page of a newspaper. Someone elses entry for Silkie may look more formal like the page of an encyclopedia, and still someone elses could be set up with no particular pattern like a page from a scrapbook.

The idea is to provide the information in an interesting, entertaining, and visually stimulating manner. Anyone can view other sites, or pick up a book and read about breeds, but what can BYC provide that these others cant? REAL WORLD, BACKYARD EXPERIENCE from the mouths of the breed owners themselves.

 

[Hozer]

Check out orchidboard.com. Love their layout.

They have a section just for pictures.

They break it down by species groups.

I would suggest a stickie in the newbie section with instructions on posting pictures, managing your account, etc.

Maybe a stickie in the newbie section on proper etiquette, important rules, common newbie mistakes...for people like me who do not read the instructions.

Here's a link for resizing images I got from that site. It's really slick...just download then right click image and select resize. Select small, medium, or large. It puts the smaller file size image right next to the original image with the size in parentheses. It's a Windows Power Toy:

http://download.microsoft.com/download/whistler/Install/2/WXP/EN-US/ImageResizerPowertoySetup.exe

 

[Nifty-Chicken]

Some really great suggestions and ideas! Sorry I've dropped the ball on this, I've been anxious to find a way to combine breed pages and the chick ID project in a meaningful way.

I've posted some info on the chickID thread here.

I think we can find a balance between info that is organized in a templated way while still allowing for the creativity and personalization of each page.

Here is what I'm thinking: Use the template style of info, then pics as laid out here but add a section that has stories and other personalized information from the author. I think this is probably a really good place to start.

The easiest way to move forward is to have categories similar to how Chris mentioned above, but leveraging the layout and system we have in place for coop designs. So it would look like:

1) A main breed page with 2 main sections: Standards / Bantams and possibly under each would be classes.

2) Clicking on the section or class (depending on how many submissions we get and how we feel will be best for navigation) the visitor will be taken to a page just like the coops page with an ordered list of good quality thumbnails in alpha order by breed name. Clicking the link will take the person to the page for that breed. Initially we'll allow multiple breed pages per breed.

Each breed page will need to:
1) Have the images stored on BYC's servers
2) Follow a basic template / organization structure
3) Have good quality images and accurate info
4) Must be approved before being added to the index

Thoughts?

 

[Vlatro]

Hi, I'm pretty new here but have found the site very useful. I am considering raising some chickens, and am in search of breed information before making my first purchase. While I'm no expert when it comes to chickens, I've done a lot of web development in the past and think this project would be very helpful.

My thoughts on the subject:

1) Data should be stored in an SQL database, rather than just typed in as html. That allows for easy referencing. Then breeds could be organized by any variable. I.E. Type of egg, Meat quality, Temperature tolerances, difficulty level in raising them etc. Rather than writing a separate index listing the same pages, the index is generated and new pages are automatically placed appropriately.

2) A uniform login. If there will be a photo gallery, wiki, additional discussion threads etc, it should work seamlessly with the user's existing login. This is something many sites overlook, and it heavily deters people from contributing. No one wants 3-4 password to access different parts of the same site. Some PHP knowledge will be required, but most of the free frameworks out there are easily extensible.

3) Standardized templates. While I know people are very passionate about their chickens and want a page that conveys their (and their chicken's) personality, allowing too much customization will make it difficult to navigate. Keep breed statistics in a floating box located in the same area of each page. Use one universal font set with predetermined sizes.

4) Each new page could create a thread on the forum in a closed section. The breed page can offer a link back to the new forum thread for discussion. If people disagree about the facts of that page, it can be discussed there in it's own specific page. If people want to share stories about their experiences with that breed, they can do it there. Keep the breed page brief and factual, but allow more subjective discussion and insight in an easy to find place that won't bog down the original article.

5) Everyone will want to post their own pictures, which is great. However, there should be appropriate limits on the image type, file size, dimensions, and more importantly, each picture should lend to the context of the article. For example, the article references a unique coloring pattern, one picture is chosen to illustrate that. On the bottom of the page, offer a few thumbnail pictures with a link "See more pictures of this breed". The pictures there can have their own captions, but should be separate from the main page. While you want everyone to be able to participate, you don't want one page that scrolls down for 2 miles with 600 over-sized photos.

6) Version tracking. This is standard, your forum should have it built in, all wiki's do, and the photo gallery is no exception. You always want to be able to roll back to an older version of an image or article if something goes wrong.

7) A "sandbox". Even if you don't go the wiki route, you want a place where people can experiment with their layouts and pictures. An admin can then review it, make changes if necessary and post it. It makes the editorial review process much easier by providing a collaborative work area that others can see while still being unlinked to the formal article while edits are pending.

All in all, I think a wiki is your best bet in terms of the features required. While I understand the hesitation (Many of the best chicken experts may not know wiki markup), there are a number of WYSIWYG wiki editors you can either install manually on the server end, or downloadable applications that will allow people to submit word documents, spread sheets etc and have it converted automatically. It can be made idiot-proof if time is spent setting it up that way. A fresh install of most wiki software requires many hours of customization before it's ready to have the first page added. It's a pain to get a wiki working initially in just the manner you want, but in the long run, it will require much less work to maintain. If done properly, your "Expert Wiki" can be submitted to other wiki projects like Wikipedia and increase the exposure of your website.

While the proposed project is simple enough to get rolling, it has the potential of growing very quickly. As such, maintainability should be your first and primary concern, or the work required to keep it going can get overwhelming.

There are many approaches you can take, it all comes down to your skill with SQL and PHP. While I don't have a lot of free time, I'd be happy to assist with testing, troubleshooting, basic design etc. Just drop me an e-mail if you need anything.

Edit:

I have a quick mock-up of what I'm talking about. Forgive it's crudeness, It's clearly a cut and paste job from wikipedia and google image search, but for 10 min of work, it conveys the idea pretty well. Keep in mind, there's no set back-end to it, just a sketch. Click the thumbnail for a larger image.

 

[Nifty-Chicken]

Wow, Vlatro... I love the way you think! I'm going to reply to your comments here, even if a bit of this is over the heads of some members, because I really appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts with us.

It is a tricky balance between what users can / can't do, will / won't do, what we can develop on the back end (resource allocation), and what makes sense in different stages of roll out. In general we don't practice "build it and they will come" (which may be incorrect). We usually start a project manually, get feedback, tweak, automate, improve, wash, rinse, repeat, repeat, repeat. Release soon, release often is something I subscribe to.

Regarding your great points:

1) Data: I totally agree! If we had unlimited resources to build a fully automated system and members that could use them we'd be on it like white on rice. My dream would be a form submission where members enter all the data in fields, browse for the images on their computer, and everything is loaded into the DB. This may still work, but we'd do it after the manual proof of concept.

2) Uniform Login: Already there! The only portion of all of BYC that doesn't have a single login is the store, and that will probably be addressed in the future.

3) Standardized templates: I personally agree with this. For the purpose of getting organized info conveyed to people in a consistent and easy to understand manor, this is key.

4) Page / Thread: This is something we've discussed and are open to, especially if laid out properly. Instead of a forum thread each page could have a comment system like a blog (but utilizing the members' current logins (as noted in #2 above).

5) Picture consistency: totally agree!

6) Versioning: We do daily backups of the entire DB and almost always have 4-6 copies of that day's DB backup in multiple locations across the US. While a versioning / rollback system like primarily found in a wiki would be cool, we could rely on backups in a similar manner.

7) Sandbox: Always fun to give people a place to kick the tires before they dive right in.

We tossed around the idea of a wiki 18 months ago and decided it wasn't a good fit at the time (for some of the reasons you mentioned). It may be an idea to revisit a wiki system, not only for breeds, but also for chicken information in general. While we've always struggled with getting members to submit information outside of the forum I think there is a lot of potential for collaboration and info gathering / organization.

I'd be very interested to know how many of our members have ever worked on a wiki system before?

BTW, I TOTALLY love your mock-up! You obviously have layout skills in addition to your product management skills. One of the huge bonuses of having info in the DB as mentioned above is the ability to present, search, and sort the data in so many different ways. Imagine a fully interactive, sortable, searchable, constantly updated version of one of my favorite pages: Henderson's Chicken Breed Chart

 

[MoodyChicken]

Wow, that's a fabulous setup! You should add an "ornamental" option along with "meat" and "egg." Some breeds are only meant to look pretty, like Modern Games.